THIS BLOG ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HOW SCIENCE IS CATCHING UP WITH REVEALED RELIGION

THIS BLOG IS AN ATTEMPT TO PUT ALL THE COOL STUFF THAT I BUMP INTO ABOUT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND EVENTS THAT LEAD UP TO IT INTO ONE LOCATION.
THE CONTENTS WILL BE FROM AN LDS PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING IN HERE, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY CARE TO ARGUE, UNLESS YOU CAN ADD TO THIS BODY OF WORK. I HAVE AN OPEN MIND, THAT IS WHY I READ STUFF FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND SEEK LEARNING FROM THE BEST BOOKS. I JUST AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT - BUT TO PUT IT OUT THERE WHERE OTHERS CAN PERUSE/PURSUE IT. I TAKE PARTICULAR INTEREST IN HONEST SEEKERS OF TRUTH AND BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE IS REVEALED RELIGION'S BEST ALLY. YOU WILL SEE ALOT OF TOPICS IN THIS BLOG THAT SHOW SCIENCE BACKING - AND SLOWLY CATCHING UP WITH - REVEALED RELIGION.
ENJOY!!

Tuesday, October 9, 2012

PRIDE AND THE GENTILES - THE BOOK OF MORMON WAS WRITTEN FOR US

I think the greatest thing I have learned in the last 20 years of my life (besides the composite lessons of having been married), is that we are the Gentiles that the writers of the Book of Mormon were talking about.  We are the ones who would eventually go astray as a body (see my previous post about Joseph's dream about the Kirkland farm) - and who would then need to be cleansed and then purged as a people; as a body.  The greatest thing we can learn in this life - is that we are nothing before the Lord.  Humility can be learned and self-implemented into our lives as a form of Consecration; the giving of our spirits/wills completely to Him - or it can be taught to us by a school-master with an all piercing eye to root out the cancer of pride from the very recesses of our souls until we are clean every whit.  That is a hard road that President Benson warned about when he said that we can choose to be humbled, or we will be externally humbled (paraphrased).

When it hit me about 5 years ago that we (I) am the one who has gone astray and that the last few chapters of 2 Nephi were written specifically to me, I was floored; and I began to have my eyes opened to further light and knowledge - and therefore, growth.  No more arrogant denials, smugly pointing out how the Catholics or the Protestants were the ones in the divine cross-hairs - it is me who is slated for everlasting destruction unless I come to a true knowledge of my Redeemer.  Denver Snuffer - although he has taken much heat for his opinions, was my first witness that I was on the right path when it comes to 2 Nephi 28-31.

Here is an excerpt from a book or compilation written by a reader's former Mission President that denotes the same concepts - and calls for repentance; and who talks about the coming divisions within the Church as the "fluffies" or luke-warmers are spewed out in the purge:

Chapter 13
THE POLLUTION OF THE CHURCH OF GOD

Mormon scathingly rebukes the latter-day Gentile church— that’s us, for
transfiguring the word of God and pollut[ing] the holy church of God.
Mormon 8:33
33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye
built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye
transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation
upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for
behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be
fulfilled.
Mormon 8:34
34 Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things
concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these
things shall come forth among you.
Mormon 8:35
35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are
not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know
your doing.
Mormon 8:36
36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there
are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of
their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and
strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities;
and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted
because of the pride of your hearts.
Mormon 8:37
37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your
fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love
the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.
Mormon 8:38
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38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves
for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of
God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why
do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than
that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world?
Mormon 8:39
39 Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and
yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick
and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not?
It ends up that virtually the entire Book of Mormon is a record about the second
church of the vision of the tree of life, the Nephites, polluting the church by their
pride and greed, just as the first church, the early Christian’s of John’s day, polluted
the church, for the very same reasons, by removing many of the plain and precious
parts of the gospel. And that the record of these pollutions has been preserved to be
handed down to the third church as a prophetic type and shadow of the Gentile
church of the latter days (us), doing the very same thing— changing the true gospel
of personal sacrifice to a false gospel of personal success to justify our love of the
world. The vision of the tree of life shows that these pollutions have destroyed the
saints and brought them into bondage to the adversary in virtually every dispensation.
In our day the pollutions are becoming increasingly subtle. And their insidious
stealth appears to be making them more destructive than ever. We must remember
that God has restored the plain and precious parts of the gospel again. He has
revealed to us anew the priesthood and plain and precious things of faith, repentance,
baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and the laying on of hands for the
Gift of the Holy Ghost. Additionally, he has revealed the plain truths of the temple:
the laws of obedience, sacrifice, the gospel, chastity and consecration as well as
revealing the precious principles of eternal marriage and families and the central
place of marriage and family in the kingdom both now and in the eternities to come.
Tragically, the prophecies are indeed coming to pass. There are now some among
us, professing to belong to the church (see Hel. 3:33), who are polluting the church
today just as in the early Christian and Nephite churches of the past. It is imperative
that we recognize and understand these modern pollutions of our church that their
prophetic writings so passionately warn us would come.
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We have already discussed at length the cause of the pollutions, the pride of setting
our heart upon riches and the vain/fine things of the world and aspiring unto the
honors of men. The first form of the pollutions of the holy church which Mormon
says pertains to this prideful condition of most of the saints has to do with breaking
our covenants by turning our backs on the poor and needy in the spirit of greed and
self aggrandizement. As we have seen, this prideful sin is clearly among us today.
Along with this first form of transgression that always destroys the church of God,
we discover that there is an additional modern strain of this greed and vanity, this
covenant breaking, that has stealthfully crept into the church as well. It appears the
cancer of pride is like any other virulent disease. It can mutate into new strains over
time.
The prophets have taught and re-taught the importance of:
C marriage
C marrying early
C temple marriage
C marital fidelity
C not postponing children
C not arbitrarily limiting the size of our families
C mothers remaining in the home full-time
C and couples and families living within their means
These have not been casual suggestions, infrequent observations or the opinions of
individuals. This counsel has been trumpeted by the prophets of God in resounding
consistent unified warning and testimony. Every single prophet, since antichrist
worldly trends began attacking the traditional family gained momentum in the 60's,
has so warned and counseled the saints. (See author’s book, Power and Covenants:
Men, Women and Priesthood or Womanhood, Priesthood, Godhood). They have
made it clear that these issues are not on the sidelines but at the very core of the
restored gospel and God’s great plan of eternal happiness for his children:
No success will ever compensate for failure in the homes of the
Latter-day Saints. (President David O. McKay).
The most important of the Lord’s work we will ever do will be the
work we do within the four walls of our own homes. (President
Harold B. Lee).
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It is no secret that the trends of Babylon (the world) are directly counter to all this
counsel. It is no secret that this counsel is unpopular with the worldly and considered
foolish and impractical by the educated of the world. It should also be no secret that
a significant portion of the church has chosen to listen to the world instead of the
prophets regarding these important things. Not only do many members listen to the
wisdom of the world (the great and spacious building) but they even seek to establish
this wisdom and learning of men in the church in direct opposition to the counsel of
the Lord’s prophets and revelators. And they do it for the exact same reasons as
those of old— to justify themselves in aspiring to the honors of men and getting gain
and grinding the faces of the poor.
Covetous, foolish and/or lazy men who have either forced their wives to work by
deserting their families (divorce) or want their wives to work for the sake of more
material blessings, and vain and aspiring women who have succumbed to the
mockings and alluring wisdom of the great and spacious building, desiring the
supposedly more glamourous, prestigious (honors of men) and beneficial life styles
of degrees and careers, are seeking to justify themselves in going contrary to the strait
and narrow path laid out by the prophets by teaching these things in the
congregations of the saints, claiming these alternate life-style choices are good and
that they in no way compromise our walk on the strait and narrow path to the Tree
of Life.
It has been a most amazing few decades to watch Lehi’s, Nephi’s and John’s vision
of life unfold right before our very eyes. Some members of the church have humbly
trusted the inspiration of heaven, held to the rod and, in spite of the mockings and
wisdom of the world coming from the way of the great and spacious building, stayed
the course laid out by the Lord’s anointed. In doing so, many have foregone what
President Benson called “fast paced living and securing career success in the single
lane,” as well as opulent homes and the fine clothing, automobiles, cruises and
creature comforts that money can buy, choosing instead to bring many children into
the world according to the commandments of God and in keeping with sacred
covenants made in solemnity at the altars of the temple. These have spent their time,
talents, money and everything with which the Lord has blessed them serving his spirit
children— bearing them, caring for them when sick, feeding them when hungry,
comforting them in sorrow, clothing their nakedness, teaching them to walk uprightly
before the Lord and providing for their every need at great personal sacrifice. In
doing so, these have come to appreciate for themselves the connotations of the Lord’s
inspired counsel, that this is indeed full time work, and coming to see for themselves
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the wisdom of heaven— that this, rather than the glamorous forbidden paths of the
world, is truly the way to the tree with the fruit of eternal happiness.
At the very same time, other professing members of the church have rejected this
counsel of heaven and embraced the pride of the world and the life styles of the great
and spacious building. They have, in the tradition of today’s wisdom, chosen not to
marry or at the least, to postpone marriage, so that they might pursue the finer things
of life, education, travel, careers and the pleasures of this present world called
Babylon. These that do eventually marry for companionship and sexual gratification,
have chosen either not to have children or to postpone children for the very same
reasons, as children would inhibit them pursuing the forbidden paths of selfishness
they prefer to travel. How could they pursue higher degrees, careers, world travel
and their worldly leisure with children tying them down and draining their resources?
These that do eventually have a few “trophy children” selfishly limit their posterity
for the same reasons. How could they possibly retain their figures, their demanding
careers, their healthy bank accounts and pursue the alluring paths of Babylon with
eight greedy and needy kids to cramp their style? And these are the same who chose
to be two income families in spite of the children’s needs, in spite of the counsel of
the prophets, in spite of the now obvious, if it wasn’t before, toll these things take on
marriage and home.
There are no mysteries here. We can serve God or we can serve mammon. And we
can do either one as ostensible members of the Church. But, what many fail to see
is that when we chose Babylon’s course, we are not only guilty of personally
rejecting the prophets, but of polluting the holy church of God as well. Our contrary
lives and philosophies teach our families and neighbors different lessons than those
coming from heaven. Our priorities and justifications serve and defend the selfserving
kingdom of the devil not the selfless family of God. Our lives become the
adversaries lies, his false advertising, saying to the other members of the holy church
that they too can have it all. Our sophisticated justifications seem so alluring and
cogent, especially to the youth of the church. As we work with the youth we tarnish
them with our exciting Babylonian precepts and examples. It’s all so logical to seek
the things of the world in the wisdom of the world when we are all so much of the
world.
With great agility and acumen these whores justify the forbidden paths with the logic
and wisdom of the world. They preach to us that we can better serve the church by
being successful in the pursuits of the Gentiles— higher learning, successful careers,
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prominence and wealth. These pursuits, they submit, will build the kingdom of God
so much better than staying home and having a bunch of underprivileged kids. They
tell us that some members, contrary to the prophets teachings, are better suited for
professional careers than for domestic duties.
No matter that the covenants at the altars of the temple pertain to multiplying and
replenishing the earth, the wisdom of the great and spacious building says, “Why yes,
but mingle it with our wisdom and it will be better. Postpone and limit your family
that you may seek first the things of this world and aspire to the honors of men, then
you can serve the kingdom so much better, then you can give your three children the
fine things of the world— to say nothing of yourself. Being well educated, a woman
can do so much more. Not being bound down by a brewed of children you will be
able to serve so much more effectively. You will not only realize your full potential
but serve the kingdom so much more effectively. There are more paths to the Tree
of Life than one. Each much choose his own path and find his own course. It is
different for everyone of us.”
But with time, many of the saints come to see that these pluralistic justifications for
going contrary to the prophets are empty attempts to hide what eventually becomes
obvious. The truth is we who make such choices do not really want to serve God and
our fellow man in God’s way with personal sacrifice at all. We have opted to serve
ourselves with personal success instead. We will become great educators with high
degrees, famous athletes who become very popular with the world by breaking the
Sabbath, great businessmen who love and make and ostensibly give much money—
great men and women of the world who the world will respect and admire. And with
these honors of men and the things of the world (D&C 121:35), we then purport we
will serve God and his children. We will be his greatest servants and we will do it
our way, rising to the heights of worldly prosperity and success— having our cake
and eating it too. This thinking may not always even be a conscious thing, yet this
exactly mirrors Satan’s philosophy. He wanted to be the Messiah, but not with any
personal sacrifice. He too wanted to serve his way, in power and glory, not God’s
way, in abasing himself in personal sacrifice. He could not and would not give
himself a sacrifice for all so he proposed another self aggrandizing plan, but our
meek Lord who came into the world not to do his own will but the will of the Father
(Jn. 6:38), both could and did. He sought not the honors of men or the things of this
world. He suffered the will of the Father in all things.
These pseudo-members play havoc with the church. Their pollutions, seeking to
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justify their desires for the vain things of the world literally persecute and destroy the
church and the people of God from within.
2 Nephi 26:29
29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold,
priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto
the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they
[don’t really] seek...the welfare of Zion.
Alma 1:12
12 But Alma said unto him: Behold, this is the first time that
priestcraft has been introduced among this people. And behold, thou
art not only guilty of priestcraft, but hast endeavored to enforce it by
the sword; and were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it
would prove their entire destruction.
[The angel of the Lord] cried again, saying: Alma [a rebellious
member of the church], arise and stand forth, for why persecutest thou
the church of God? For the Lord hath said: This is my church, and I
will establish it; and nothing shall overthrow it, save it is the
transgression of MY PEOPLE. (Mosiah 27:13).
Priestcraft is the magical art of turning the vain priorities of Babylon into the
priorities of the saints. Mingling the philosophies of men with scripture the saints
justify themselves with their own learning in going a whoring after other priorities
than those the Lord has set. The craft is in showing that in seeking the wealth and
popularity of the world the saints are only doing the work and will of God. But it’s
all smoke and mirrors. When the saints love the vain things of the world more than
heaven’s plan of happiness they cease to be the church of God— they become the
other church. Remember, there are only two, and it all comes down to the heart.
The revealed key of happiness is that mankind will only fill the measure of his
creation and find joy and happiness therein by marrying and multiplying and
replenishing the earth:
Man is not complete without the woman. Neither can fill the
measure of their creation without the other. (President Howard W.
Hunter, Ensign, November 1994, p. 49, emphasis mine).
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We seriously regret that there should exist a sentiment or feeling
among any members of the Church to curtail the birth of their
children. We have been commanded to multiply and replenish the
earth that we may have joy and rejoicing in our posterity. (First
Presidency letter to bishops, stake presidents and mission presidents,
14 April 1969, emphasis mine).
Anything that detracts from this plan is the lie. The fundamental unit of both society
and the church is the family. The prophets have fervently and unanimously testified
that no worldly success will ever compensate for failure in our homes. They have
counseled and even plead with the saints not to compromise these marital and
familial values, vouchsafed from heaven, for any other supposed treasures that earth
may have to offer.
I can assure you that the greatest responsibility and the greatest joys
in life are centered in the family, honorable marriage, and rearing a
righteous posterity. (Ensign, May 1988, p. 52, emphasis mine.)
There can be no genuine happiness separate and apart from the
home. The sweetest influences and associations of life are there. We
cannot be successful no matter what goals we attain in the material
world, no matter what honors of men come to us; we will not be
successful in our lives if we fail as fathers and mothers. (C.R. Oct.
1947, p.27, emphasis mine.)
But too many have not listened, both in our society and in our church. The adoption
of these perverted, pluralistic priorities and practices of Babylon (higher learning,
career success, double incomes, limited families, day care and nanny mothersubstitutes,
deficit spending) have brought the family to crisis in our society and in
our church. Just as the prophecies have warned, these things are and will bring the
calamities and judgments of destruction upon us. Our sacred marriages cannot be
merely shared priorities with the educations, careers, pleasures and interests of the
world. The precious children entrusted to us from heaven cannot be part time
priorities in the lives of their preoccupied and overly busy parents who greedily want
it all, and pridefully think or, at least hope, they can have it all.
These deceitfully justify themselves with arguments of the importance of education,
the value of career success and supposedly “being all that they can be” in the cause
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of building Zion. Their erudite rhetoric deceives many, often including themselves,
and tragically pollutes the holy church of God.
But this deceit is far more obvious to some than many know. Some of us come to see
all of this for what it really is— the mockings and vain imagination and wisdom of
Babylon the great, the great and spacious building, the great and abominable church,
even the whore of all the earth.
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I will post the rest of it here in .pdf format once I figure out how to do it.  I have only skimmed at this point - but I found this chapter which gives me assurance that the rest of it is on the mark.

I see my daughter struggling to find her way in a world where Babylon is held up as the standard - and then I see her seminary teacher, a former Bishop whose wife is our RS President who was able to make it on one income, who homeschooled all 8 of their children, who is putting the last one through his mission, and who has all the other 7 kids endowed and sealed in the temple to their companions.  I am blessed to be surrounded by faithful members who understand and have heeded God's counsels with exactness and am able to point to them as examples of faith, courage, and perseverance that back up what my wife and I are trying to pass on to our kids.

13 comments:

  1. We need to be careful how we judge, that we be not judged. We should use what the prophets both old and modern day have said to judge ourselves and not others. Some of the most important earthly angels in my life and the lives of my children were female doctors , midwives, or counselors, who I know without a doubt God put in my path. Were they evil....I think not. Many of the Mormon pioneer women were sent away for a time from their families to learn a skill to bring back and then help their families and neighbors. I think the Lord will judge us for the intentions of why we do things, in addition to what we do. The Book of Mormon states this clearly as well. Only God knows our intentions.

    The Jews worshipped the dead prophets, but not the living one among them. Do we do the same? Some of us really have a hard time when policies and procedures or even council changes assuming either the old prophets or the new ones have to be wrong, without realizing both could be right, but we are missing pieces if the puzzle. God is the law giver and he can change the laws according to the needs of his children on earth and Satan's changing tactics. We cannot presume to tell God what he can and cannot say. What is constant is his love and concern for us and our welfare.

    Yes, we do get influenced by the world and the great and spacious building, but let us not be pointing the fingers at others, in or out of the church, or our leaders, let us keep the finger only pointed at ourselves, and ask God where we stand in his favor, not how others stand in his favor. We do need to pray to know whom to trust and we do need to help the poor and the needy.

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  2. I believe that Home schooling may be the only way to accomplish this. Having the rhetoric of the world ingrained into you for the majority of the day is just too hard to overcome for most.

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  3. I find it interesting that the author of this piece poked a jab at those with 3 children. President Monson has 3 children.

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  4. Elder Holland has 3 children, Elder Uchtdorf has 2....

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  5. My wife and I only have 5 kids. We wanted more but medical concerns kept us at that point. We both were thinking we could handle 6 but came up short.

    My wife pointed out that the article deals with the ideal - not the reality for everyone.

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  6. I thought this an absolutely WONDERFUL article. Please post more. WE need to hear more of this type of teaching.

    While I understand the point that the first anonymous commentor was trying to convey about not judging one another and condemning one another...it is VERY important that we recognize the tactics that Satan is using to deceive us in the latter days. I thought he hit the nail on the head. There are some truths that are eternal. If you read carefully and could see the intent of the author...I would wager that he is not saying don't become educated...or remain ignorant and uninformed...or there are not exceptions that the spirit will direct on certain paths. Rather, he is saying (IMO) that there is a very dangerous trend going on within our very own church...who should know better...wherein we are buying into the precepts of babylon and mingling them with scripture and we are selling our birthright for a mess of pottage.

    There is no modern day prophet who has taken back or contradicted anything that the former prophets said in regards to beginning our families upon entering marriage and having as many children as we can. Just because they have said "get all the education you can" people have assumed that meant they are now justified in delaying marriage...or living in marriage without allowing children to come (birth control)...such is not the case. That is man's interpretation and rationalization to get of easy.

    I could go on and on about this subject. It is one I have studied and prayed about extensively. In all my dating at BYU, I was only able to find two men that were willing to begin a family right away and not selfishly limit their family size. I took their attitudes to be a reflection of their commitment to God and an understanding of God's plan and purposes. I married one of them! I was right! He is fantastic and I am blessed with 7 wonderful children... 1 born only 10 months after marriage, 3 others which I had to adopt , and three others which are miraculous blessings after years and years of petitioning and being willing to bear children into my forties.

    I want to shout hallelujah that someone was willing to preach the truth and not worry about the truth "offending" someone that can't handle hearing hard doctrine.

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    Replies
    1. Phew, glad to get some support on this one. I was starting to look like a pin cushion with all the holes I was getting punched in me. One of the comments was from my good wife who had just gotten done taking care of some business with an LDS gal who moved into our neighborhood and is a midwife. My wife was a victim of sexual abuse and when she had to go see a man doc during one of our pregnancies, I was forced into the appointment for support while a cervical exam was performed. Yes, I was in the room and had to watch the whole thing. AWKWARD, to say the least - not that male doctors have not attended the births (where men are normally present), it was that I guess that there were extreme few men who have attended the cervical exams of that particular male doctor..... I think he was blushing more than I was and it was my first non-birth experience with any other doc.

      So, she for one, is very glad to have female gynecologists and the midwives on the last three pregnancies. I have to say I am relieved, as well.

      I commend you for your diligence in bringing so many children into the world and caring for them. God knows where the heart is - and sometimes gives us challenges so that we can appreciate what we have been blessed with. No one ever loved babies more than me after we lost our Dallin. We were like magnets to any kid in a stroller - it must have been quite a sight to the people whose kids we were ogling over....

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  7. I have to say here - people have chimed into the blog at times feeling deflated and upset that I have been too harsh or judgmental; and I understand where they are coming from.

    Almost every single talk (and Priesthood lesson) I have ever given in Church is prefaced with the old statement that what I am about to give is the Lord's standard that we could/should aspire to. Where we are actually at is a whole other topic. I always tow the line of where we should be at and rarely ever cater to the world's standard. Even in my own life, I always preach to the theoretical, but fall short repeatedly - and I have a wife and four kids who can attest to that detail..... Otherwise, I would already be hanging around with the likes of Enoch and Elijah etc.

    My daughter and I went to get some hay a few weeks ago and on the long drive, she asked how someone could be imperfect and have a solid testimony (like I do). I think she thought you had to be perfect in order to have the Spirit witness strongly to you. I chuckled and began to list my imperfections (sorry, no joy on that one, the comments only allow 4000 characters...) but then I also went over how each one of those imperfections has helped me become a stronger person.

    I knew I was in trouble and had departed the path to some degree when I could not read past the first couple of chapters as a teenager, in The Miracle of Forgiveness. It was just giving me way too many gut punches and I knew repentance was in order at that point. So it is with some of the harder things that we bump into - such as what Denver Snuffer has been writing (that all is not well in Zion). To balance out all perspectives here in the comments, though, truly, when I have been off the path, I took the truth to be hard. As I aligned myself with the principles of the Gospel, it became easier for me. Truly His yoke is easy and the burden is light - when we are striving in a spirit of humility.

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  8. Here is a great blog for people who find the struggle against Babylon too much:

    http://findingthejoyinmotherhood.blogspot.com/

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  9. Amen brother. The intent of the whole book of Mormon is to try and help us not fall into the same cycle of pride that the Jaradites and the Nephites did. Sadly, Mormon sees our day in vision and tells us that we have "polluted the holy church of God."

    The gentiles (lds) can either repent and become the kings and queens (kings and queen in the priesthood) that help in the gathering of the house of Israel, or they can become as salt that has lost its savor. Jesus in 3 Nephi is not very optimistic of the gentiles.

    3 Nephi 16:10

    10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

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  10. Wow - I had never made that connection before with 3 Nephi 16:10. I have always focused on everyone else around me and never thought I would be in the cross-hairs. I will re-read that chapter one more time in a different light.

    Both times (after Christ came - and they were given consecration and had plurality in marriage - and our day when we have had the fulness plus the witness of the Book of Mormon), we have rejected the fulness and are limping along making higher covenants in the Temple, but with no real way to completely live them in their full measure because we have rejected them in their full measure.

    Thanks for the input.

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  11. This is Anon 8:14pm. My name is Adam

    You will notice that in 3 Nephi 15 when referring to the gentiles it says, "they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor." What does it mean to be salt? The answer is given in the Doctrine and Covenants 101:39

    When men are called unto mine everlasting gospel, and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men;

    So, the gentiles referred to in 3 Nephi 16 can only be latter day saints. We are the only ones that have made authorized covenants.

    With this understanding you'll find the book of Mormon gives quite a sobering view of the gentiles.


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    1. There is something known as the Covenant of Salt... studied that one out a while back. Cool stuff.

      Also, there is a resurgence of interest in our roots as a people when it comes to our Mormon Midwife heritage. Joseph Smith set apart women to lifelong missions as herbalists and midwives. The herbal medicine being known as that method developed by Samuel Thomson... and rediscovered and revived by the late John R. Christopher. As for midwifery, that died out with Brigham Young sending sisters back East for training in obstetrics, though I do believe Brigham Young was also of the Thomsonian bent from the lean of his preaching and writing, the Babylon-seeking Saints took it from there, eliminating both the tradition of LDS teachers teaching LDS children and LDS midwives serving LDS women. For information on the resurgence, see BirthingInZion.com - especially the listing for that doula in Montana! :) - and the new book, http://thegiftofgivinglife.com/

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