THIS BLOG ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HOW SCIENCE IS CATCHING UP WITH REVEALED RELIGION

THIS BLOG IS AN ATTEMPT TO PUT ALL THE COOL STUFF THAT I BUMP INTO ABOUT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND EVENTS THAT LEAD UP TO IT INTO ONE LOCATION.
THE CONTENTS WILL BE FROM AN LDS PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING IN HERE, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY CARE TO ARGUE, UNLESS YOU CAN ADD TO THIS BODY OF WORK. I HAVE AN OPEN MIND, THAT IS WHY I READ STUFF FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND SEEK LEARNING FROM THE BEST BOOKS. I JUST AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT - BUT TO PUT IT OUT THERE WHERE OTHERS CAN PERUSE/PURSUE IT. I TAKE PARTICULAR INTEREST IN HONEST SEEKERS OF TRUTH AND BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE IS REVEALED RELIGION'S BEST ALLY. YOU WILL SEE ALOT OF TOPICS IN THIS BLOG THAT SHOW SCIENCE BACKING - AND SLOWLY CATCHING UP WITH - REVEALED RELIGION.
ENJOY!!

Wednesday, July 16, 2014

THE RANKING OF NOBLE AND GREAT ONES IN THE PRE-MORTAL REALM

In virtually every circumstance, there is a spectrum.  From completely good, down to foul and the worst of the worst.  We saw this in the Savior and the d'evil.  I do not believe necessarily that we "sinned" in the Spirit World, so much as we forsook or squandered opportunities that were afforded us in a near-perfect environment until some had clearly risen to the top (like cream on milk) and the rest were somewhere within that ranking.

When I think of sin, I think of physical bodies and agency (good and evil).  Maybe, it was our ability to commit sins of omission (not commission), that got us into a higher or lower state of being.  It was a war of ideas and words.  Sins of pride, lack of loyalty and so many others could be committed, but those are character flaws - which then lead to sins of the flesh which the 10 commandments deal with and help us to overcome.

Here is the write-up that got me to thinking.  I am just throwing ideas out there.  Heaven knows I have to have something to distract me while the wheels are coming off the wagon:

  The following is taken from "The Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ and His Apostles" LDS student manual pages 335-338. (Link Provided)

POINTS TO PONDER POINTS TO PONDER

YOU ARE FAVORED BECAUSE OF YOUR
CONDUCT IN PREMORTAL LIFE

You belong to the family of Israel. By inheritance or
adoption you may lay claim to every blessing
reserved for Israel. Not all the reasons for your
blessings are because of your conduct in this world;
some go back into the beginning with God. Review
the following scriptures and carefully study the
dialogue between David and John.

Romans 9:11, 12
Did God bestow the same favors on Jacob and Esau?
Was mortal performance the basis for God’s favoring
Jacob over Esau—had there been opportunity for
either child to do either good or evil at the time of the
indication of favor?

Romans 9:14
Does the fact that God favored Jacob over Esau even
at the time of birth mean that God arbitrarily selects
those upon whom his favors will be bestowed without
reference to their worthiness or obedience?
Romans 9:18–20

When we look at God’s dealings with men from a
purely mortal perspective, it is difficult to see why he
gives to one blessings that he may withhold from
another. The questions in verse 19 are the questions
asked by those who have no understanding of a
premortal life. Is it appropriate to challenge God, or
to suggest that he is not fair in placing us in the
stations we occupy in this world? If two souls are
born into this world in seemingly unequal
circumstances, and God is just, what had to occur to
justify God’s placing them in unequal circumstances?

David
If some of the circumstances in which I find myself
are based upon my conduct before, where did I
begin? When did I start?

John
Well, first of all, there is an eternity of spirit matter.
“Our spirit matter was eternal and co-existent with
God, but it was organized into spirit bodies by our
Heavenly Father.” (Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness,
p. 5.) “All men were first born in pre-existence as the
literal spirit offspring of God our Heavenly Father.
This birth constituted the beginning of the human ego
as a conscious identity. By the ordained procreative
process our exalted and immortal Father begat his
spirit progeny in pre-existence.” (McConkie,
Mormon Doctrine, p. 84.) “All men and women are
in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother,
and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.”
(The First Presidency [Joseph Smith, John R.
Winder, and Anthon H. Lund], “The Origin of Man,”
Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, p. 78.)

David
If I was born in the premortal world, what
experiences did I go through there that provided God
with a basis to favor or restrict me in this world?

John
We lived there in the home of our Father in heaven.
“He is a resurrected and holy and perfected man,
and we are his offspring. We are his spirit children.
He lives in the family unit. We are members of his
family. We lived in this premortal life with him for an
infinite period of time. We were on probation; we
were being schooled and tested and examined; we
were given the laws and the circumstances so that we
could progress and advance. . . .


“This system was given to us, and for an infinite
period of time, we advanced and progressed and did
things that enabled us to go along the course leading
to exaltation and dominion and godhood. . . .
“In this prior life, this premortal existence, this
pre-existence, we developed various capacities and
talents. Some developed them in one field and some
in another. The most important of all fields was the
field of spirituality, the ability, the talent, the
capacity to recognize truth.
” (Bruce R. McConkie, as
cited in When Thou Art Converted, Strengthen Thy
Brethren, A Study Guide for the Melchizedek
Priesthood Quorums of the Church, 1974–75,
pp. 8–9.)
“Our spirit bodies went through a long period of
growth and development and training and, having
passed the test successfully, were finally admitted to
this earth and to mortality.” (Kimball, Miracle of
Forgiveness, p. 5.)
“Preexistence is not some remote and mysterious
place. All of us are but a few years removed from the
Eternal Presence, from him whose children we are
and in whose house we dwelt. . . .
“. . . We know we had friends and associates there.
We know we were schooled and trained and taught in
the most perfect educational system ever devised, and
that by obedience to his eternal laws we developed
infinite varieties and degrees of talents. . . .
“. . . When we come into mortality, we bring the
talents, capacities, and abilities acquired by
obedience to law in our prior existence
.” (Bruce R.
McConkie in CR, Apr. 1974, pp. 101–3.)

David
I am to understand, then, that I was born as the spirit
son of God in heaven, that I lived there with my
Father and mother in heaven and with my spirit
brothers and sisters, and that I had opportunities to
learn, to be tested, and to develop talents and
abilities?

John
That is right. Some accounts that we have of the
premortal life teach that we “were on the same
standing” (Alma 13:5), and that [b]we were “innocent”
in the beginning
[/b] (D&C 93:38). We were given laws
and agency, and commandments to have faith and
repent from the wrongs that we could do there. “. . .
Man could and did in many instances, sin before he
was born. . . .”
(Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 44.)
“God gave his children their agency even in the
spirit world, by which the individual spirits had the
privilege, just as men have here, of choosing the
good and rejecting the evil, or partaking of the evil to
suffer the consequences of their sins. . . . some even
there were more faithful than others in keeping the
commandments of the Lord. . . .

“The spirits of men . . . had an equal start, and we
know they were all innocent in the beginning; but the
right of free agency which was given to them enabled
some to outstrip others, and thus, through the eons of
immortal existence, to become more intelligent, more
faithful, for they were free to act for themselves, to
think for themselves, to receive the truth or rebel
against it.”
(Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:58–59.)
Many responded to the spirit of God there. They were
favored and foreordained to receive privileges.

“. . . And it was on account of their exceeding faith
and repentance, and their righteousness before God,
they choosing to repent and work righteousness
rather than to perish; therefore they were called after
this holy order, and were sanctified, and their
garments were washed white through the blood of the
Lamb.”
(Alma 13:10, 11; compare McConkie,
Mormon Doctrine, p. 477.)

“Now this is the doctrine of foreordination; this is
the doctrine of election. This is the reason why the
Lord has a chosen and favored and peculiar people
on earth; and this is why he said: ‘My sheep hear
my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.’”
(Bruce R. McConkie in CR, Apr. 1974, p. 103.)

David
But what of those in premortality who rejected the
Spirit of God and did not exercise exceeding great
faith and repentance and righteousness before God?

(See Alma 13:4, 10.)

John
They were not able to enjoy the great privileges that
others were foreordained to receive.
(See Alma
13:4.) They “did not show the loyalty to their
Redeemer that they should.” (Smith, Way to
Perfection, p. 43.)

David
But weren’t they allowed to come into the world
innocent, too?


John
Yes. They were innocent at the time of their mortal
birth.
(See D&C 93:38.) Elder Joseph Fielding Smith
said this:
“Their sin was not one that merited the extreme
punishment which was inflicted on the devil and his
angels. They were not denied the privilege of
receiving the second estate, but were permitted to
come to the earth-life with some restrictions placed
upon them. . . . Yet, like all other spirits who come
into this world, they come innocent before God so far
as mortal existence is concerned, and here, under
certain restrictions, they may work out their second
estate.”
(Way to Perfection, pp. 43, 44. Emphasis
added.)
Hence, some in this world receive great privileges
and opportunities to receive the gospel because they
chose to do good in preexistence. Others are limited
here because they were not as “noble and great”
there. (See Abraham 3:22.)

David
And how does the concept of Israel enter into this?

John
The family of Jacob is somehow involved in
preexistence.

“Israel is an eternal people. Members of that chosen
race first gained their inheritance with the faithful in
the premortal life. Israel was a distinct people in
pre-existence. Many of the valiant and noble spirits
in that first estate were chosen, elected, and
foreordained to be born into the family of Jacob, so
as to be natural heirs of all of the blessings of the
gospel. It was to their pre-existent status that Moses
alluded when, in speaking to mortal Israel, he said:
‘Remember the days of old, consider the years of
many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew
thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the
most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the
bounds of the people according to the number of the
children of Israel. For the Lord’s portion is his
people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.’ (Deut.
32:7–9.) Those of mortal Israel who walk uprightly
in this second estate shall have eternal inheritance
with Israel in the world to come.” (McConkie,
DNTC, 2:284.)

David
So the fact that I am here now and receiving the
blessings and opportunities that I now receive means
that I have already passed the test, under different
circumstances and conditions?

John
Yes. And if you succeed here in this second estate,
you shall not only be entitled to advantages in the
world to come (D&C 130:19), but you “shall have
glory added upon [your head] for ever and
ever.” (Abraham 3:26.)

YOU MUST BE FAITHFUL HERE TO RETAIN
YOUR BIRTHRIGHT AND MERIT THE
BLESSINGS YOU WERE ELECTED TO
RECEIVE

Does birthright by itself secure your eternal destiny?
Will Israel be saved just because they are of Israel?

Read Romans 10:11–13.
Of course, the gentiles in Paul’s day had not had the
same opportunities to receive the gospel as had
members of the house of Israel. But did members of
the house of Israel receive the rewards of the gospel
just because they had the advantage of hearing about
the gospel before the gentiles?

“The house of Israel was a distinct people in
pre-existence; that is, by obedience and devotion,
certain of the spirit children of the Father earned the
right to be born in the lineage of Abraham, of Isaac,
and of Jacob, and of being natural heirs to the
blessings of the gospel. But some of them, after such
a favored birth, after being numbered with the
chosen seed, turn from the course of righteousness
and become children of the flesh; that is, they walk
after the manner of the world, rejecting the spiritual
blessings held in store for Israel. They are
disinherited; they shall not continue as children in
the family of the prophets when the chosen race
continues as a distinct people in the eternal worlds.
Thus they are descendants of the prophets in this life
but shall not inherit with the sons of God in the life to
come.” (McConkie, DNTC, 2:276–77.)

“. . . there are many among us who because of their
faithfulness in the spirit world were ‘called’ to do a
great work here, but like reckless spendthrifts they
are exercising their free agency in riotous living and
are losing their birthright and the blessings that were
theirs had they proved faithful to their calling.” (Lee,
Youth and the Church, p. 172.)

Now what of you? For all that has been said of Israel
applies to you. You were vitally interested and
personally involved there.

What shall you do, and what shall you be, here? You
came from God, and you have been given great
privileges and blessings here because of your
faithfulness. But you will go back one day, and you
will answer for all these blessings, for as Paul wrote,
“Every one of us shall give account of himself to
God.” (Romans 14:12.)

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