1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;I find GREAT comfort in knowing that someone as insignificant as me can potentially one day have audience with the Lord - that He cares enough for me to ensure that I can meet Him if I can meet the bar that He has set (remembering that His yoke is easy and His burden is light - or in other words, this is not too hard of a thing to accomplish, if we simply apply ourselves and desire it with all our hearts). I might only struggle with feelings of my own inadequacy and also with what questions I might ask during that time.
Here is my friend's FB rant (which I also happen to agree with, to some degree):
The following powerful passage has been completely wrested by a popular former LDS (excommunicated) author, Denver Snuffer, Jr., and his followers:
"The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation. After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses...
“Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and this is the sum and substance of the whole matter; that when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions—Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the Saints who held communion with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn.”
– Joseph Smith
('History of the Church', Vol. III, pp 380-381)
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I love that (doctrinal) quote from the Prophet Joseph Smith...
What I do NOT love is the teachings of a certain excommunicated lawyer (Denver Snuffer), who perpetuates the idea, for $24.95 + tax, that there is some 'formula' for CONJURING the Savior of the world.
The very idea that ANYONE should feel entitled to a visitation from Deity is an obvious immediate disqualification. But that lack of humility, that prideful expectant self-will, will definitely open the door to the side of the veil that CAN be CONJURED by men on earth (Moses 5:22-31)
From the Prophet Joseph Smith to the Apostles and Prophets of the past (such as John the Revelator, Paul, Ezekiel, Jacob, Nephi, Isaiah, Moses and the brother of Jared) those to whom the Lord unveiled His face had one consistent common theme:
NONE of them were EXPECTING a divine manifestation when it occurred!
The Lord does NOT hearken to the conjuring commands of men.
That would make the Savior of this world subject to men. When our only hope to have such a manifestation is to become fully subject to Him.
And, again, that is the key word – HOPE.
When something becomes an expectation, it becomes an entitlement. It is NO longer a gift. It is a demanded wage.
That has NEVER been the case with ANY Divine Manifestation in the scriptural accounts. It has ALWAYS been a gift to the faithful – who, in every instance, had no anticipation or expectation that the Savior would part the veil and grant them a witness of His glorious majesty.
I deeply worry about those who have fallen prey to this dangerous new trend towards expectantly CONJURING Deity – as though the Godhead were a set of genies in a bottle. No matter who their 'visitors' claim to be, who exactly are they opening up the door towards – in these entitled anticipatory petitions?
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(D&C 112:10)
10 Be thou humble; and the Lord thy God shall lead thee by the hand, and give thee answer to thy prayers.
I am not quite sure what you or Denver are saying here. What I am sure of is what I heard an apostle of the Lord testify in Lansing Michigan Stake Conference about this verse. Elder David A Bednar testified that it was both a reality and a possibility for every person who righteously sought it. I think DS went beyond the mark if he taught that you can somehow FORCE the Almighty to do anything. Especially because something else Elder Bednar taught me is that spiritual gifts are not wrested from the Lord, they are always gifts, but gifts given to the worthy in the Lord's own time.
ReplyDeleteI am not a follower of DS at all; however, the doctrine of calling and election in this life as well as receiving the Second Comforter is TRUE. The Book of Mormon identifies 30 individuals who received C & E and 20 of those received the Second Comforter.
ReplyDeleteD & C 77: 11 tells us that the 144,000 are those who will "bring as many as will come to the Church of the Firstborn". How will they bring them to the COTFB unless they have received the PROMISE? This has already begun. It is right to seek for it says Paul, Joseph Smith, Marion G. Romney, and Bruce R, McConkie to name a few.
Denver Snuffer has never taught that you can force the Lord to do anything. He has taught that we should seek the face of the Lord. If you do not believe this to be true then you do not believe the scriptures and you believe that God IS a respecter of persons. Joseph Smith taught that we should all seek to have the same experiences that he had and nothing less. It is our traditions and unbelief that keep us from thinking it is a possibility. It is throughout the scriptures and the Lord beckons all of his children to come unto Him. Literally not figuratively!
ReplyDeleteI too have ready most of Denver's works and he never has said that one can force a visitation. However, the Lord did say "every soul" that does these things (seems like a formula to me) "SHALL see my face and KNOW that I am". He made this promise or invitation to all. We don't control the timing but we have to believe it is possible and exercise faith for it to happen. I believe very sincerely that Christ can visit with me. Do I think I deserve it? Absolutely not but if God spoke to Cain after he murdered his brother than why not me?
ReplyDelete- Vince
"If you want to learn from Christ, He explains, you must have belief, make an inquiry and have a soft heart." This is a quote from DS's book, conversing with the Lord through the Veil. Doesn't sound prideful to me.
ReplyDeleteDoes this statement in the Book of Mormon sound prideful? It sounds like Moroni is saying we should have faith, and there are signs that follow them that have faith.
Moroni 7:35-38
"....If they are true, has the day of miracles ceased? Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved? Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men;
wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain. For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name; wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also; and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made.
Sounds to me that DS is trying to prepare us for the turmoil that is about to come upon all the earth. If we do not seek for spiritual gifts, manifestations, ect.... or even expect them, how will the lord bless the saints? How will we withstand what is coming? We can humbly "expect" communion with God if we are believing, true and Faithful. It is not prideful to humbly expect God to bring us beyond the Veil , rather it is prideful to unbelievingly not expect it. Of coarse patience is a whole other matter. It would be prideful to expect an actual manifestation when God knows your not ready.