This is a nice link, and pertains very well. Thank you.
The old prophecies and statements by the old leaders is part of what makes this such an interesting, and for me vague, topic. How to feel about this will ultimately rest on future revelation. With your interest and knowledge of church history, I would like to read a future post from you on this. If you take requests.
Comment # 18 left by Eric Nielson on November 3rd, 2006
I have actually toyed a bit with the idea. The drawbacks are that it is very complex. Is there any reason to take it out of the Article of Faith before we take out the second coming? I think that the challenge for Mormon’s has been that since the beginning, they have believed that the second coming was going to arrive in their lifetimes and often within x years. When you put something like the gathering of Zion in Jackson County that doesn’t seem to be happening, they rationalize their way out of in preference of an eminent coming of Christ. Well, generations of Saints have been wrong and they die without the Millennium. Odds are that it will be the same for us.
Comment # 19 left by J. Stapley on November 3rd, 2006
Odds are that it will be the same for us.
Speak for yourself! :)
Comment # 20 left by Connor Boyack on November 3rd, 2006
The best place to learn about the new Jerusalem is reading Isaiah. The best commentary money can buy is by Avraham Gileadi and cost $40 + $5 shipping. it is 30 hours of verse by verse commentary on two CDs in a MP3 format. You can play it on any computer or MP3 player. see
Isiiah explains that america will have a economic clospe where the stock market will fall just like 1929. Most people on the last days list think this will happen in oct of 2008. Accourding to Joshp smith there will be a civil war starting in chacigo, which will spread across the usa. There will be no law and order, only in the rockys. kind of like how new orlands was when there was no food. missionarys will be sent out to gather people to the rocky mountains for peice and safety. The saints at that time will unhold the consitution. The lord will raise up a servant who will lead the people into the winderness like moses did. At this time amermica will be attached both one the CA side and the East side.
at this time 90% of the world people are killed, by war by the antichrist. only the rightous 9% will be protected indirectly. The 1% which is the holy seed will be gathered by the 144,000 to zion.
Faithfull sons like hemaun army will over come the attacking armys.
this will be done by faithful white and laminiate people. The us amry will have given up, and it will take this servant and the faithful sons to cause the power of god to fight back the invading armay.
the coming of the savior among these people will be so natural that only a few people will know the savior will have come. This is not his coming in golry.
The savor will lead a group and also the 144,000 each will lead people back to mousir zion in groups of 300-600 each. With one of the 144,000 in frount and in back. These people will be lead like moses and they will walk thur the fire, the oceans , the armys ect with the cloud of glory protecting them by night and a fire in the day. when they get to the center place zion, the glory that was upon each group will then be added upon the temple. so as more and more people gather, zion will put on its glory and streangth till the whole would will see its glory. The people who come to zion will have their calling and ection sure.
you have got to get Avraham Gileadis commentary on Isiiah. The best that any LDS author has yet to bring forth. over 30 hours. Hugh b Nibley said that Avraham is the most quilified peoson to teach Isiaih he knows of.
It is an amazing great work and wonder….
Is America on the Cusp of Economic Chaos? A Voice of Warning, Are We Listening?
Jared on October 29th, 2008 in Preparedness
I don’t know the answer to this question, but sentences beginning with economic, and ending with assorted descriptive terms like depression and collapse are being heard among those who are in the know about things financial. I think Jim Rogers was the first market maven I heard sound the alarm about the seriousness of the sub-prime problem in late 2007. More recently he told CNBC that the US government’s approach to the “bailout” will create an “inflation holocaust”.
In a now famous talk given by President Hinckley in Oct 1998 Priesthood Meeting, our optimistic prophet struck a surprisingly pessimistic tone when he said:
“There is a portent of stormy weather ahead to which we had better give heed. I hope with all my heart that we shall never slip into a depression. I am a child of the Great Depression of the thirties. I finished the university in 1932, when unemployment in this area exceeded 33 percent… We are carrying a message of self-reliance throughout the Church. Self-reliance cannot obtain when there is serious debt hanging over a household… I urge you, brethren, to look to the condition of your finances. I urge you to be modest in your expenditures; discipline yourselves in your purchases to avoid debt to the extent possible. Pay off debt as quickly as you can, and free yourselves from bondage.”
An Astonishing Prophecy
BACKGROUND ON IOHANI WOLFGRAMM FROM HIS GRANDSON:
Im happy to see that some of you may have known my grand father Iohani and for those who did not know him you would have loved my grand father honestly. He was an incredible honest man with unbelievable faith in Jesus Christ. he was blessed spiritually and had the strength of a Lion when he testified of the gospel.. Anyone who knew him knew that granpa loved them unconditionally. He was blessed with the gift of Healing and the he had great faith and magnified his priesthood to the best of his human ability. He prayed often and fasting was a regular part of his life.. He had a fouth grade education and could not read nor write but daily my granma would read the scriptures out loud while Iohani memorized each scipture word for word... He understood the scriptures and was able to cross reference. He served as a missionary most of his life and was a building missionary through out the pacific Islands. Granma and Granpa were called by the Mission President in Tonga and advised that they were to gather up the family and move to SLC. Utah, they moved in 1965. They had 18 children and when they came to America. the only way was on the front deck of a freightliner ship. They left with only the clothes on their backs and and very small amount of food. My Aunts believe that because they fasted often they were able to servived that long hard trip.. Some of my aunts were just children at the time advised that they were sea sick,wet and cold and had to be tied down so that they would not get washed away by the harsh giant waves. Still keep in mind that none of them spoke the English language.. All they knew is that the Lord had asked them to move to SLC and because of the faith my grand parents they just picked up and loaded that ship with full faith and trust that God will provide. The trip was planned by the church leaders so when my family arrived they were picked up by LDS members who were awaiting their arrival.. this is the kind of humble man my grand father was and I'm very blessed to be a part of his family... Granma use to ask him how will we eat and survive in this country and Granpa would say "If god can feed the animals on the ground and birds in the air, then he will also feed us his survants." My grand parents were true Pioneers of the Pacific. They later learned that they were called to this country to complete their geneology and to perform all of the hundreds and thousands of temple ordinance for their families etc. So the rest of their lives were dedicated to geneology and temple work. They also put in for a mission and did get send back to Tonga to serve and in their later years they served as Stake Missionaries. I have many many true stories and experience of miracle and blessings to share but I will share them with you at a later time. I love and miss my Grand parents they were fun folks and we always laughed with them... There is so much I wish to share but I will do so in due time. God bless everyone during these hard times and may we be obedient to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in all that we do. God be with you. Aloha
MORE ON IOHANNI:
This e-mail article is from Darren
I served as a councilor to Ensign Wolfgramm, Iohanni's nephew, throughout the 80's and early 90's. As a result of my relationship with Ensign, my wife and I had the wonderful opportunity to receive a blessing from Iohani.
I knew that Iohani had raised at least 2 people from the dead. One was his daughter, and Elder Oakes speaks of the event in one of his talks. (Also in the June 2001 Ensign http://lds.org/Static%20Files/PDF/Ma...2001Ensign.pdf Pages 13-14) I had the opportunity to talk to this daughter of Iohani and she told me about her experience of being run over by a car, having her head crushed, dieing, receiving a blessing from her father and coming back to life without any physical evidence that her head was crushed.
Another story I was told was that a relative of Iohani was in the LDS hospital and had died, It took over 2 days to get Iohanni to come and give him a blessing, as he was in California when his relative died. The staff at the LDS Hospital told the family of the dead man that they could not keep the dead body any longer in the hospital room and they were about to move him to the morgue. Finally Iohani got there and revived the dead relative.
The reason that Iohani had the gifts that he had is that he was so very humble and a true follower. He went on eight full time missions to Tonga. He told me that he visited the huts or doors of every person in Tonga, even the King and Queen. Tonga is now predominately Mormon, and some of that success is due to the efforts of the Lord working through Iohani.
My wife and I each received blessings from Iohani, my wife was told in her blessing that she would see the Savior and that she would witness the return of the city of Enoch. Mine was equally wonderful.
Iohani Wolfgramm did not mention to us the coming economic collapse when we met with him, but he did mention getting our lives ready for the Savior's return as he told us that His return would happen very soon.
Iohani's words have sunk deep into my heart. It was a great blessing.
Recently I came across a prophecy reportedly given in 1989 by Iohani Wolfgramm. Brother Wolfgramm, I’ve learned, is a Tongan brother known for his spiritual gifts. Elder Oaks referred to him in a talk entitled, “Miracles”, published in June 2001 Ensign. It is a word of mouth, fragmented pronouncement without a source. I would normally file it under the heading of unreliable prophecy, but I decided to keep it for further evaluation. Following is part of what he is reported to have said regarding an economic collapse:
“The Big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president.”
Someone commenting that the patriarch must mean that President Bush (the 1st Pres. Bush) would be re-elected. Patriarch Wolfgramm then replied (remember, this is 1989) that it wasn’t that Pres. Bush, but that it was the son of Pres. Bush who would become president that he was referring to.
I’ve been able to trace discussion on this prophecy as far back as 2003 on the internet. Does anyone know more? I hesitate to pass this kind of thing on, but I want to learn more about this prophecy. Do any of you reading this have more information?
I feel to echo the words of President Hinckley, and say it is important for all of those who follow the prophets to double, and redouble our efforts to be prepared as church leaders have told us for these many years.
I’ll close this post with the words of another prophet, Ezra Taft Benson who said:
“The revelation to store food may be as essential to our temporal salvation today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah” (”Prepare Ye,” Ensign, Jan. 1974, 69).
As I tried to look away from my black surroundings, a small light started to shine in front of me, and the darkness, sounds and feelings that had so completely oppressed me started to fade into the background. The light grew bigger, and a window opened up much the same as when I had witnessed my life's review. This time however, a panoramic view of the entire earth lay before me. It came closer and closer as if I had been out in space and was flying toward it.
I knew what was happening was intended to help me make my decision about going back to the earth and my terrible life. A part of me wanted to go back to the beautiful spirit world, or paradise, that I had seen, and another part of me felt the need to be reunited with my body so I could change my life. It was a tug-of-war, and what I was about to see was to help me understand what I would be going through if I chose to go back to my 'body of clay.'
Again the view before me played out like a videotape in fast forward motion, and yet I could see the scene in perfect clarity and was able to comprehend everything that transpired. As the earth zoomed up into my view, I first saw the whole world, and then various countries. It was made clear to me that in the future there would be wars and troubles, including nuclear attacks in various places of the world, and a view of how it would start was given.
I am not familiar with the geography of the world, but as I looked a the various lands before my view I instinctively knew what countries they were. Looking at the Middle East, I watched as a missile flew from Libya and hit Israel. The mushroom cloud that resulted from the blast was visible, and I knew that the missile contained a nuclear bomb. I was aware that those responsible for the missile were Iranian, but the missile had been hidden and fired from within the borders of Libya.
Almost immediately after this, other missiles began flying from one country to another, quickly spreading war around the world. I also saw that many nuclear explosions did not come from missiles but from bombs of some kind on the ground.
My focus then changed from the Middle East to the United States, and I understood that I was about to see some of the things that would lead up to the nuclear holocaust that I had just witnessed.
As I looked upon the continent of North America, I zeroed in on the eastern coast and then on New York specifically. I saw New York City with all of its people and buildings. I then saw some tall buildings crashing to the earth surrounded by tremendous amounts of smoke, dust, and debris.
I zoomed in closer into the smoke and dust, and I saw a woman holding a little girl's hand and running from the crashing buildings. The woman had long dark hair, hanging past her shoulders and curled inward slightly. She wore a beige business suit, heels of a slightly darker color, perhaps tan, and she was not wearing glasses. The little girl appeared to be about 6 or 7 years old with short brown hair reaching below the chin and cut in a type of pageboy look. They ran together, holding hands and trying to escape from the falling buildings. As they ran through the heavy smoke and dust, they were forced to let go of their hands and became separated. The child was terrified, and I could hear her screaming, "Mommy, mommy!" over and over again.
I don't know their outcome, if they lived or died, but I can still see the face of the woman clearly and could easily identify her from a photo or describe her to a sketch artist. I asked if an earthquake had caused the buildings to fall and felt impressed that the answer was no. However, I was not given any indication as to the cause of the destruction. (Incidentally, I told this story many, many times before September 11, 2001. When I did see on television the World Trade Center towers collapsing, I knew that this was what I had seen.
The next thing that came to me was more felt than seen. It was the understanding that shortly after the crashing of the buildings in New York City, commerce ceased. Shopping and buying seemed to stop, and the economy failed throughout the world. Few had any money at all, and those who did have it could not buy anything of worth with it. Gold and silver and other commodities had value and could be traded.
I then saw a man walk into a middle of a crowd of people and drop what seemed like a quart jar full of liquid. The jar broke and the liquid spread. I understood that people nearby had become infected with a disease from the liquid, and they didn't even know it. A day or two later the people became sick and started dying. I saw that this would happen in four particular cities: New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Salt Lake City. The disease started with white blisters, some the size of a dime, appearing the hands, arms and face of the victims. The blisters quickly developed into white puffy sores. Those with the disease would stumble around and fall over dead. Many died within a short time, perhaps 24 hours.
I also saw other people with a flu-like virus that spread more quickly than the first disease. The victims had blood coming from their nose, mouth, eyes, and ears. These people died even faster of this disease than the ones who had the first sickness. These diseases became wide-spread across the United States with hundreds of thousands infected.
As the people were fleeing the cities in the hope of saving their lives, gangs were attacking them and killing them. In the towns that were struck with disease there was chaos, with looting, rioting and murders involved in a complete breakdown of society. Many people seemed to go crazy. I sensed that the electricity had failed everywhere and that nothing was running throughout the country, including any of the communication systems. I watched people throw rocks through windows to steal TV's that would not work and thought it was very strange.
While I watched all this happening in the United States, my view instantly jumped back to the Middle East, and I saw the same thing taking place in Israel. The same sores and the same types of sickness and disease that were plaguing the U.S. had also been unleashed in Israel.
The switch in view only lasted an instant, and I was back in the United States. There was a tremendously long winter that caught everyone by surprise following the siege of sickness. It started early and lasted into the summer months. A famine had begun over the few years leading up to the long winter because of storms, droughts, floods and other plagues that had taken place; and the abnormally long cold period seemed to cause the famine to suddenly increase to its full measure.
In the period of time following the disease, which was quickly followed by the long winter, things started going down hill very quickly. Events piled up one on top of another without any breaks. My sense of timing was not very clear at this moment; however because I was seeing several things happening all at the same time or very close together.
During and after the long winter, the disease spread everywhere and increased in severity. The economy and the electricity were completely gone. Chaos and anarchy reigned over the entire United States. Without any government there was a total breakdown, and I saw people panicking everywhere. They were trying in vain to find food. There was none. I saw people even digging in the ground for worms to eat because they were so hungry from the lack of food.
Also, during this time I became aware that there was very little drinking water, and the remaining water had become contaminated, so that if a person drank it they would contract the disease and die. Because of their great thirst many people drank the water in spite of the danger of poisoning and died.
I mentioned earlier the gangs that killed people trying to escape the cities. It seemed that some of the people had lost their minds and went around in these gangs killing people just for the sake of killing; others killed for food or to gain some material possessions from their victims. Those that were killing for no reason were like beasts: animals completely out of control, as they raped, looted, burned and butchered people. I saw these gangs go into the homes of those who were hiding. They would drag them out of their hiding places, rape and dismember them.
For many there was an unnatural fear and hatred that came over the people. Family ties that once existed between husbands and wives, parents and children no longer mattered. The only thing that mattered was individual survival. Men would kill their wives and children for food or water. Mothers would kill their children. For me, the events that then lay before me were horrible beyond description and almost unbearable to watch.
The air everywhere was filled with smoke as many buildings and cities burned with no attempt to control the fires. As I looked upon this scene of chaos, smoke and destruction I noticed that there were small pockets of light scattered over the United States. There were, I would guess, about twenty or thirty of them that I saw. I noticed that most of the locations of light were in the western part of the United States, with only three or four of them being in the east. These places of light seemed to shine brightly through the darkness and were such a contrast to the rest of the scene that they caught my attention. I focused on them for a moment and asked, 'What are these things?'
I was then able to see that these points of light were people who had gathered together and were kneeling in prayer. The light was actually coming from the people, and I understood that the light was showing forth their goodness and love. I further understood that they gathered together for safety and that, contrary to what I had witnessed everywhere, the cared more for each other than for themselves. Some of the groups were small with only a hundred people or so, but other groups consisted of what seemed to be thousands.
I realized that many, if not all, of these places of light, or cities of light as I began to think of them, had somehow been established just before the biological attack, and that they were very organized. It was as if they had known what was coming and had prepared for it. I did not see who or what had organized them, but I did see many people struggling to reach them with nothing but what they could carry.
The cities of light had food that others outside of those groups did not have, and within the cities of light food was readily shared with those who joined their groups. In these places there was peace and safety. The inhabitants were living in tents of all kinds, many of which were no more than blankets held up by poles. I noticed that the gangs made no threats on these groups and left them completely alone, choosing to pick on other targets and unprotected people, as many of the people in those cities had guns that they would use for self-defense. The gangs also preyed upon the people who were traveling, trying to reach the cities of light.
As I looked upon them, I realized that these cities of light were temporary and that in a short time the people living within them would go to another place. I do not know where they were to go but seemed to think that they gathered in the mountains, to higher places.
As I was viewing the cities of light, my focus changed, and I became aware of missiles being launched and hitting U.S. cities. I watched as mushroom clouds started forming over many areas of the United States. Some of the clouds came from missiles that I knew were fired from Russia, and others were not from missiles at all, but from bombs that were already in the United States. These latter bombs had been hidden in trucks and in cars driven to certain locations and then detonated.
I specifically saw Los Angeles, Los Vegas, and New York City hit with bombs. New York City was hit with a missile, but I think that Los Angeles was hit by at least one truck bomb, if not several, because I didn't see any missile. I also saw a mushroom cloud from north of Salt Lake City, but without the aid of a missile.
In the darkness I also saw little fireballs. I'm not sure if this happened just before or during the mushroom clouds. The balls fell from the sky, were of different sizes - most being the size of golf balls - and were very hot. There were millions of them. As they fell from the sky they left streaks of flame and smoke behind them. Everything they touched started on fire: people, buildings, trees, or grass. Everything burned. I didn't ask what they were or where they had come from because by this time I was sick because of the scene before me, and so I observed without asking many questions.
At almost the same time and in the same locations as the mushroom clouds, I saw Russian and Chinese troops invading the United States. The Russians were parachuting at many spots along the Eastern Coast; I also saw them parachuting in Utah. Chinese troops were invading from the West Coast near Los Angeles. They were met with resistance from those who had survived the disease and bombs. I did not see any United States military there at that time.
The invasion was part of the nuclear war that I had seen earlier, and I knew that similar events were taking place all over the world as I had seen previously. I did not see much of this war, but was impressed that it was short in duration and the Russian and Chinese armies lost and left. No explanation regarding how or why was received.
Now the smoke became very heavy, dark and thick. Just as things appeared to be as bad as they could get, the earth began to quake. This occurred during a winter, seemingly the winter that followed the very long one I had seen earlier. The chaos had existed for almost a full year by this time. The earthquakes began in the west, around Idaho and Wyoming, and then quickly spread in every direction. I saw a huge earthquake hit Utah, and then California. There were earthquakes all over California, but they were especially devastating in the Los Angeles and San Francisco areas. San Francisco appeared to turn upside down.
The multiple earthquakes triggered volcanoes all over the west, and they started spewing a tremendous amount of ash and smoke into the air, causing it to become very dark and dirty and blocking much of what was left of the sunlight.
There were also huge waves of water that swept over the west coast, and as I saw them I realized that this same thing was happening to coastal cities all over the world. The waves were so huge that Los Angeles was nearly swept away.
I saw a wall of water taller than some of the buildings, perhaps as high as fifteen or twenty feet, sweep through Salt Lake City. I thought this was strange because of its location so far from the ocean, and wondered how a wave could travel all the way to Salt Lake City. I was impressed that the wave had not originated at the ocean, but was from under ground. I quickly noticed great cracks in the earth around Salt Lake City opened up and saw water shooting up out of the ground. I felt that deep under the ground was a huge amount of water and that the earthquakes had forced it up to the surface. Most of the buildings were swept away or destroyed when the water swept over the city. In fact there had been tremendous destruction, with only a few buildings left standing. The water coming from underground stretched from Idaho down to near Cedar City, Utah, and was very destructive.
As I looked, I could see that cities all over the country had been devastated, and there was rubble everywhere. Most of the buildings were destroyed. However, I realized that even though there was tremendous destruction from earthquakes, disease, floods, volcanoes, and tidal waves, the majority of the deaths were caused by the gangs of roving marauders that killed for pleasure.
As I studied the scene for a moment, the thought occurred to me that the earth itself had become sickened at the terrible acts of cruelty that were happening upon it and was finally reacting through these natural disasters. The earth was attempting to cleanse itself of the chaos and evil that had engulfed the people. The ash and smoke from the volcanoes had increased, and there was now almost complete darkness everywhere upon the earth.
The diseases also increased in devastation, and I saw people literally dying on their feet. I saw another particular disease that started with red blotches, and then the victims would start to bleed from every opening in their bodies. Then the people literally disintegrated, or melted into unrecognizable masses of flesh and bone. The sight was horrendous, as death and the dead were everywhere.
After this second terrible winter, I saw the survivors pile up the dead into huge piles to burn them. The stench was sickening. Some of the bodies had been burned during the time of chaos, but because people were more concerned with their survival they had mostly ignored the dead around them.
A huge earthquake occurred in the middle of the United States. It was tremendous and seemed to split the United States in half about where the Mississippi River is. The crack in the earth that resulted was huge, miles wide, and as it opened up the earth seemed to swallow everything. Water flowed in from the Gulf of Mexico all the way up to the Great Lakes. The Great Lakes did not exist any longer, however, as they became part of a large inland sea.
Then I saw another series of tremendous earthquakes all over the world. But they were not many, separate earthquakes, rather it was all part of one gigantic earthquake that shook the entire earth. Because of this earthquake waters overflowed their boundaries onto land all over the world. There were again huge walls of water along all of the coastal regions. This earthquake and the walls of water made the earlier ones seem small by comparison. I am not sure if the earthquake that split the United States in two was a part of this worldwide quake or not.
Next I saw a mighty wind come upon wind come upon the earth. As the wind hit, I saw people go into caves and into the cracks of rocks to try to escape its fury. It appeared to be stronger than any hurricane or tornado. It seemed that everything that had been left was now blown away.
I understood, without asking, that the great worldwide earthquake and the mighty wind were somehow caused by a huge planet-like object, that had come very close to the earth and had disrupted everything. It was also made clear to me that it was very near the "end" when this happened.
Now my perspective changed: I once again viewed the entire earth from a distance. I then saw a huge fireball, much larger than the earth, approaching our planet. It was extremely bright red and gold in color, and it engulfed the whole earth. When I witnessed this event I could not help but feel the difference between it and everything else that had occurred, and so I asked what this was that I saw. I was impressed that it was the burning of the earth that is described in the Bible. I understood that just before the fireball's appearance Jesus had appeared, and the good people I had seen earlier had left with Him and were no longer on the earth. The few people left behind were those wicked who had survived the earlier devastations.
The picture of the earth engulfed by this huge ball of red and gold fire slowly faded away into blackness. I was thinking that I have to go down and take care of my children so that they could be protected from the terrible things that were going to happen and then I don't remember any more until I woke up in the hospital."
Economic collapse starting in Bush's second term.
Some time after 9/11 the global economy will collapse to the point where paper money is useless and commerce ceases.
Droughts, storms and floods starts on/around the collapse and eventually leads up to a great famine.
Great apostasy amongst church members.
Doesn't talk about church events other than they gather in communities referred to as points of light. Maybe I missed something...
Nuclear explosion in Utah.
A mushroom cloud north of SLC
Foreign troops invade US
Russian and Chinese troops invade US.
Invasion force in Utah primarily Chinese
Chinese invade from west.
Great upheavals and earthquakes along Wasatch front area
Great earthquakes in Utah free enormous underground water reservoirs that flood much of SLC and surrounding areas
Sees points of light around the US where people gather for safety and are protected from murderous gangs, biological attack, etc. (tent cities)
Rocky mountains become sacred place where righteous gather
Righteous people collect from scattered communities to mountain areas.
They match pretty well from a direct comparison. Menet goes into much more detail on world events as they unfold.