THIS BLOG ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HOW SCIENCE IS CATCHING UP WITH REVEALED RELIGION

THIS BLOG IS AN ATTEMPT TO PUT ALL THE COOL STUFF THAT I BUMP INTO ABOUT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND EVENTS THAT LEAD UP TO IT INTO ONE LOCATION.
THE CONTENTS WILL BE FROM AN LDS PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING IN HERE, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY CARE TO ARGUE, UNLESS YOU CAN ADD TO THIS BODY OF WORK. I HAVE AN OPEN MIND, THAT IS WHY I READ STUFF FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND SEEK LEARNING FROM THE BEST BOOKS. I JUST AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT - BUT TO PUT IT OUT THERE WHERE OTHERS CAN PERUSE/PURSUE IT. I TAKE PARTICULAR INTEREST IN HONEST SEEKERS OF TRUTH AND BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE IS REVEALED RELIGION'S BEST ALLY. YOU WILL SEE ALOT OF TOPICS IN THIS BLOG THAT SHOW SCIENCE BACKING - AND SLOWLY CATCHING UP WITH - REVEALED RELIGION.
ENJOY!!

Saturday, September 21, 2013

AN unFAIR ANALYSIS OF VISIONS OF GLORY

I believe I have already blogged this, but here I go again after a friend from my EQ - who is a fellow engineer and one of the finest males that I know - seems to be on the abusing end of "Spencer".  I, personally, find no fault with the man, nor his "doctrines".  My EQ buddy points to "some book" out there that has a "cult following" that the Bretheren are warning against.  I, quite frankly, would not be surprised if this were not Denver Snuffer's book about the Heavenly Gift - and NOT John Pontius' book.  So far as I know, neither John (or his widow) nor "Spencer" have been approached by the Church trying to get them to throttle back on this - no have they been ex'd.  I can assure you that most of the people I know who like "Visions" (and that includes several former bishops in the Kalispell area), would back away at the behest of the Bretheren.  From the sounds of it, the Snuffer camp appears to be "digging in" behind a guy who outwardly appears to not want followers - and I qualify that as a "cult following".  In Denver's defense, I think he has MUCH GOOD to say, and given what I know about him (which is quite little), I would not be calling for his temple recommend.  I disagree with the conclusions that he came to about BY - but we all come to funny conclusions sometimes.  I know I have.  With a little gentle prodding, a sensible person will come around to a sensible argument.

If I had a problem with any of it, I would have sounded the alarm.  Heaven knows I have with others that I feel were out of line.  In fact, I told my friend that, when listening to the Pontius conference where Spencer spoke, I felt the exact same spirit that I feel when sitting through an endowment session in the Temples.  If a portion of something is bad - even a morsel of it - the Spirit simply will not put its stamp of approval on it.  You can have a most delicious fruit salad, complete with the most delicious and fresh fruits - but if someone sneaks a turd in - the WHOLE thing is bad.  You simply cannot have the Spirit witness to a portion of the truth when error is present.  Error, in any measure, spoils the whole message.

Not sure who the author is who wrote the FAIR assessment of Visions is, but I can honestly say that he is an intellectual, but is probably wanting in the things of the Spirit - and has most likely never had visions, visitations, dreams or miraculous healings of his own.  If it were so, he would have recognized the markers of truth in Spencer's account.  Much like those in Jesus' day who were outwardly pious, but inwardly were ravening wolves - they could critique Jesus, but were wholly incapable of accomplishing even a small miracle that Jesus did while He was here.  Even the disciples who followed and believed in Him, were loathe to replicate what He did until much later and their refining was more complete.  Those who had agendas to the contrary were just not able to replicate - so they criticized and eventually called for His ouster from this blue space marble.

All this due to spiritual lack and insecurity.  And this is how division occurs in the Church - both ancient and modern as we cater to the lowest common denominator in God's kingdom.  This blog is not to be held up as some kind of bragging post for those within the Church (including myself) - but is in place to state what can be accomplished if people will simply look to Christ and rise to the standards He has set.  It's quite simple.  The reason we are so dumbed down in our schools and most everywhere is that we cater to the LCD - and do not hold the highest up as a standard and point to it and tell others to aspire to it.  This is what Father has ALWAYS done.  Be ye therefore PERFECT, even as I am perfect. Matthew 12:48  Of course, He was pointing out the life of His Only Begotten as the way the truth and the life to bring one to this end.

So, to whomever the author of this unFAIR piece is, I say:  STEP UP, BUD!  Get with the program and get off your intellectual high horse and get down to getting on your knees and start having a few "Visions" of your own......
http://www.fairlds.org/authors/smith-gregory/spencers-visions-of-glory
 As for me?  Everything that Spencer wrote fits ALL of my personal revelation and understanding on the matter.  It also fits my doctrinal view pretty clearly.  It will be a few short years (as things grind along in the ME) and the proof shall be in the pudding as the US is decimated and Israel receives her final chastisement in preparation for the Bridegroom.  As Spencer (and Sarah Menet, and Sols Cuardisto, and Iohani Wolfgramm - and many others) have said, things will start with a humdinger of an EQ in Utah and will go from there.   When you see this in the next few years, you can begin to know that you are really in for a wild ride.

Many naysayers will be feeling sheepish after it all plays out......

THIS IS AN ADDENDUM TO WHAT I INITIALLY WROTE:

This FAIR author wrote that it was somehow incomprehensible that some of the Bretheren might not make it through what is coming.  That notion is so outrageous!  That would be like saying that the original 12 should still be ranging the earth because nothing bad would happen to them.  Nothing like being crucified upside down along the Appian Way or being thrust through with a spear.....  Things happen to the BEST of people.  I am sure the 12 called when Jesus came to the Americas were not already in leadership positions.  The one thing I do know is that the Lord will take people when He decides its time.  I am teaching the GD lesson on the martyrdom of Joseph Smith tomorrow in SS and I can emphatically say that I know that Joseph was taken under horrible circumstances (and the Savior, for that matter), but that I would not question their authority or validity as leaders due to the circumstance and nature of how they were taken from this blue space marble.  I only would envy them - precisely because the crap that they had to endure on this earth at the hands of petty people, was now a thing of their past.  And they could FINALLY dwell amongst people of a higher order - their earthly trials among a base and faithless people being complete.

Anyway, I would like to write a rebuttal of the rebuttal......  I am sure the FAIR author is a nice guy - but I would guess that I would hang with him for about 10 mins and bore myself senseless and have to excuse myself to go clear my head of dizziness......

We need more people of substance around here who have done real things and had real lives - instead of shallow paper pushers.  I read about these real people all the time - and most of the real people lived 150 years ago.  Us these days? - mostly just whiners and useless eaters (spiritually speaking....).

Spencer was one of the real ones.  John Pontius, as well.  These are the people I would call my friends.  I will now listen to the MP3 of that conference so I can get the Spirit back into my life after this rant...... :)

9 comments:

  1. I could'nt agree more with your feelings on Spencer. I too listened to him talk on Pontius website, before it was taken down. Listening to him speak has, was very special expierance and one that was filled with the Spirit and Charity. I had an overwhelming confirmation taht what he was saying was true. Only "fools mock" but they shall mourn. I also have had personal expierance with Terry Ponitus (john's wife) and I know that John was a man of God and blessed with visions himself. He was one who lived by the Spirit and I know he was not decieved when he wrote "Visions of Glory". Those who's eyes are too blind to see, miss the mark due to their own lack of the Spirit and truly miss out.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thank you for your defense of Spencer and his amazing story. My heart hurt as I tried to read this "review" of Visions of Glory and I could barely manage to finish it, for it seemed to have so much malice, error and darkness in it. What a stark contrast to VoG itself and Bro. Pontius's blog, which are both so filled with hope and light! When Bro. P blogged about how he came to write the book, I felt it was truly inspired and knew the story needed to be told at this time. It has made a big difference in my life and in many others.

    I agree that the only way to discern the truth is through the Spirit, and we need it more than ever in these days of half-truths, coverups and many lies by those who lie in wait to deceive us. I hope we will have ears to hear and eyes to see what's going on around us before it's too late.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I read visions of glory and loved I also read the unFAIR review of the book and found it not to be entirely without merit but also overly harsh. The one argument against the book that disturbed me the most was the statements that we should not be seeking After or sharing these things. I am still conflicted about that part but didn't Nephi show us the pattern we should follow for this by his approach to his father's dream? We can hardly follow this pattern if we are not exposed to these visions in the first place.

    ReplyDelete
  4. visions of glory=cult following

    ReplyDelete
  5. There are "MANY" Professors of Doubt and "FEW" of them know how to discern truth.

    Spencer,

    Thanks for sharing!

    ReplyDelete
  6. There was a story in the Deseret News this week that quoted an education week presenter in which he told the story of Elder Maxwell warning about some book with a "cult" following and how gullible the saints were. As you and I know, Elder Maxwell passed away before Visions was published but people reading the story now are drawing the wrong conclusions. This is probably what your EQ buddy was referencing. I would love to know your opinion on the timing and content of the article mentioned. It is titled, "Five Ways Latter-day Saints can avoid Doctrinal Deception."

    ReplyDelete
  7. Visions of Glory isn't creating a cult following. It's causing people to prepare temporally and spiritually, and also to look to the GAs as true Apostles who will lead the church after the Tribulation. The opposite is true here. A book that causes a cult following would lead members out of the church, not running to it.

    Whomever wrote the UnFair article is the real fool here. All the VoG naysayers I know are either too proud for their own good, or close-minded, doctrinally naive ignoramuses whose arguments can be shot down like skeet.

    But I also believe that VoG speaks on a spiritual level mainly to those who will be around after the SHTF and will need an understanding of what's happening as society breaks down--and why it happened. Some of us are presently being moved by what we think is the HG, rather like Richard Dreyfuss on Close Encounters, to get prepared on every level--not only to ride out the storm but also help others understand what's going on.

    Thank heavens for Spencer. Through him the Lord has told us what the GAs cannot, and never will, reveal--lest a panic ensues.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Let me start by saying I enjoy perusing your blog. I don't agree with many things, but it is interesting reading. I want to nitpick at your assertion here:

    "and has most likely never had visions, visitations, dreams or miraculous healings of his own. If it were so, he would have recognized the markers of truth in Spencer's account."

    Quite a ridiculous accusation on your part. I got the opposite response that you did when I read VOG. On top of that, I have experienced 3 of the 4 things you list above on multiple occasions, in what appears to be your "list" of what is required to feel the spirit.

    VOG certainly isn't Snuffer's crap, but it sure isn't gospel doctrine either, no matter how many similarities we can find.


    ReplyDelete
  9. It is quite simple, the book plainly states that it is not to be taken literally or as doctrine. Either Spencer is a cruel, evil, deceptive, manipulating liar OR he really had these visions. I believe he saw what he said he saw.

    ReplyDelete