THIS BLOG ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HOW SCIENCE IS CATCHING UP WITH REVEALED RELIGION

THIS BLOG IS AN ATTEMPT TO PUT ALL THE COOL STUFF THAT I BUMP INTO ABOUT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND EVENTS THAT LEAD UP TO IT INTO ONE LOCATION.
THE CONTENTS WILL BE FROM AN LDS PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING IN HERE, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY CARE TO ARGUE, UNLESS YOU CAN ADD TO THIS BODY OF WORK. I HAVE AN OPEN MIND, THAT IS WHY I READ STUFF FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND SEEK LEARNING FROM THE BEST BOOKS. I JUST AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT - BUT TO PUT IT OUT THERE WHERE OTHERS CAN PERUSE/PURSUE IT. I TAKE PARTICULAR INTEREST IN HONEST SEEKERS OF TRUTH AND BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE IS REVEALED RELIGION'S BEST ALLY. YOU WILL SEE ALOT OF TOPICS IN THIS BLOG THAT SHOW SCIENCE BACKING - AND SLOWLY CATCHING UP WITH - REVEALED RELIGION.
ENJOY!!

Sunday, September 29, 2013

A DEFENSE OF SPENCER AND VISIONS OF GLORY

This in from a passionate blog reader.  I have to publish it because it is a wonderful and well-spoken defense that I probably should have done earlier, but I kind of let the blog turn into a circus in the name of "political correctness" - and letting everyone have a "voice".  Which is folly, BTW.......  This is not a forum.  It is a collection of musings of a lunatic who may one find out he either had it right or he had it wrong.  Time will tell......

If I remember correctly, we are supposed to command entities and those who are under the same spirit of those entities, to DEPART!  I cannot say enough to echo the sentiments of point number two - I have become a better person because of what Spencer has to say.  I am striving more, doing more, and being better because I can see my path just a little more clearly than I could before.  More importantly, I knew all that he said was true (especially about Cardston), because I had already arrived at that conclusion before he spilled the beans in that book.  I cannot tell you the joy in your heart you have when you are treading a path mostly alone and someone puts a humungous stamp of approval on something you have felt.  My wife was mostly on board with me in all my lunatic ravings, but this book kind of sealed the deal for her and helped her to realize she did not need to increase the dosage on my medication, nor check to see if the velcro was loosening up on my "dinner jacket".

I do not mind disagreements by those who post comments, etc but if it becomes vitriolic or the attacks become personal, it is no longer healthy and the relationship needs to end.  Anyway, I am sure I will re-ignite the troll(s) out there by publishing this, but hey, one needs to take one every once in a while for the team.  Its part of the game plan when you have something that polarizes (the truth).  I support the saying on this editorial that we have to be careful how we judge people.  We must judge so that we are not deceived, but we have to have the keys of discernment and wisdom in order to get it right.  Eating crow one day will be embarrassing and damning:
Dear Wood Zone,

I feel compelled to address some of the issues regarding "Visions of Glory" (VoG) brought up in your blog by a few of its readers.  Normally, I wouldn't say anything.  However, some of the statements made are either unjustifiably judgmental or dangerously deceptive, and hence deserve some comment.

First, there's a lot of judging going on regarding Spencer.  I seriously doubt those who have judged him have spent any time with him; I have.  A lot.  Thus, their judgment is based on opinion and flies in the face of the Master's admonition to "Judge not, let ye be judged."

One of the requirements to righteously judge is to have all the facts, which (naturally) God has, and we do not.  To think otherwise is presumptuous at best and more than likely spiritually dangerous.  And with respect to VoG and Spencer, three facts are inescapable and indisputable:

1.  Seagull Book sells VoG (http://www.seagullbook.com/lds-products-766173.html).  Seagull Book is owned and operated by Deseret Management Corporation, a company owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (http://www.seagullbook.com/page-FAQ.html).  If the VoG is so bad, then why is the Church selling it?  Either the church has made a grievous mistake, or not -- it's as simple as that.

2.  To ascertain whether or not it was a mistake, we need to examine what effect VoG has had on people, or in other words, it's "fruits".  Fact: hundreds of people who've posted on the Unblog (unblogmysoul.wordpress.com) and read VoG have been more -- not less -- motivated to repent, change their lives for the better, attend the temple more frequently, pray harder, love deeper, search the scriptures more diligently -- in other words, love Christ and his gospel more.  Can a bad tree produce such good fruit?  It's either a good tree, or Satan's doing an awfully good job of shooting himself in the foot. 

3.  The commenter states that it's best to consider Spencer "a fictional character".  Ummm, wrong.  He's not.  He's real!  He's alive and well in Utah.  I have known him for quite a while.  I have his cell, home and work phone numbers and e-mail address.  He works, has a family, goes to church, pays his tithing and goes to the temple twice a week.  Again, the facts make contrary statements look foolish.

Second, a commenter recently said, "There must be 2-3 million LDS's on the west coast. I don't think the Lord is going to waste all those mostly good people."  With all due respect, again, we are seeing judgment without a command of the facts.  First, simply being LDS does not make a person "good".  Second, Isaiah and several Book of Mormon prophets are deeply, deeply critical of the Lord's people in the last days.  We LDS are still (collectively) under several condemnations, and in the ebb and flow of society, we are trending away -- and not towards -- the rescinding of those condemnations, especially so in the West Coast (and in America).  Go read Isaiah to see what happens next.

Third, the same commenter stated, "the Living Prophet trumps ancient prophets" and "I still say the best thing to do is to follow your local leaders direction (stake president) and the direction of the Brethren...Keep things in proper perspective...The Living Prophets are First."

This is dangerous ground to be standing on.  If I had a nickel for everytime the Lord said (or a passage of scripture taught) "Trust not in the arm of flesh", I'd be e-mailing you from my mansion.  Now, don't get me wrong -- I sustain our Prophet and the other 14 apostles.  Still, we are on sandy, not fertile, ground if we trust in the arm of flesh.  Case in point: There have been several instances in church history where prophets contradicted each other in points of doctrine.  In fact, disciplinary courts were held and members were censured for not believing in a doctrine which was passionately espoused by one prophet, only to be condemned as false doctrine by another prophet 100 years later.  In this case, which prophet do you believe?

The bottom line is, “Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm.”  Here's what the head of our dispensation would say in response to this commenter's thoughts:

“We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them [even] if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told do by their presidents they should do it without any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves" [Joseph Smith, Millennial Star, vol. 14, #38, p 593-595]

Joseph's successor also said:

"What a pity it would be, if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually." [Brigham Young, JD 9:150]

Fourth and finally, the commenter states, "Much of the stuff 'Spencer' says is wrong, but people continually defend what he says as the truth. These folks do not understand priesthood authority and how doctrine is established apparently."  Spencer never sought to establish doctrine.  Not at all.  In fact, he never asks for acclaim, attribution, followers or even to be believed.  VoG is strictly Spencer's account of what he was shown. He makes nothing from this book, and he asks for nothing from readers other than to look up and follow Christ.  

The bottom line is this: Before you start publicly judging someone and making statements that fly in the face of facts, do a little homework.  Then take whatever judgmental statements you are considering posting, and delete them. 

This world is already under terrible, terrible judgment. 

We latter-day saints can and ought to do better.

And we can start by not adding to those judgments, lest we -- collectively and individually -- reap even more judgments.

Thanks,

-- A Concerned Reader

I get the feeling that this individual has possibly had his C&E and that we should all be striving to that end.  I hope to meet with him one day and pick his brain on a few subjects.  There are thousands or tens of thousands of members who have gotten to that point.  I feel like I am repeatedly hitting a wall on that front.  I know it is within reach in this life - it is just a matter of finding the right key of knowledge combined with strict obedience (and I simply am too slovenly of a servant at this point).   By the natural course of things, life has beaten me down and molded me into a better person than I otherwise would be if left with no divine shepherding, but there is more to be done - and time is short.

14 comments:

  1. There is no doubt regarding the veracity of Spencer's experience, and something is seriously wrong with you naysayers scrambling for reasons to brand him a fraud. His book happens to support most of what many of use already knew or suspected regarding the spirit world, the lost ten tribes, and the Tribulation. If you think him a fraud for pathetic reasons like Christ not wearing red when Spencer at a given moment, I call into question your understanding of our doctrine and your ability to apply the 9th and 13th Articles of Faith to your thinking. We are a doctrinally open-minded Church that accepts all truth, because we, of all people, should know that God has not revealed everything and may yet reveal many things. The onus is on us to gauge truth based on the Spirit--which happens to be present when reading VoG (unless you're blind to that Spirit).

    I also question the basic intelligence of anyone who claims that God would only reveal an account Spencer's magnitude to a General Authority. Consider the role of the GAs: They govern the affairs of the Church, administer the gospel ordinances to the living and the dead, and instruct the members how to apply the gospel to our lives. It is not their duty to warn of an impending earthquake, plague, financial collapse, or any other event that would create panic, damage the church, and empty Utah Valley of its citizens. GAs have said all they can and will say on this matter. Any other course than the one they are taking would be a disaster.

    Lehi was not a president of a church when God warned him of the destruction of Jerusalem. Joseph Smith was not a president of a church during the First Vision. Nephi was not an Apostle when he saw the Tree of Life. I contend that VoG is the one and only revelatory warning we're going to get as members of this Church, so I urge you to pay attention to it.

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    1. Well said my friend Mr. Blake. I call you a friend because I agree completely with the post you have made. I have given out many copies of VoG and I find it funny to see the responses from my friends. Every one that read it loves it. There are those that are afraid to read it (heads in the sand and don't want to).They usually take issue with it out of some of the opposing arguments that have been posted. Take your pick on that front I think I have heard it all. Mostly they believe that Spencer is fear mongering. When I read his book all I felt was hope. Hope that I can become a better Man, Father, Husband, Priesthood holder...etc. Hope that when it finally hits the fan he will have a plan for me either in this life or the next.

      Very well said Blake!

      As for "A Concerned Reader" Thanks big time!

      If I can only add one thing to this conversation it is a timeless one. The Anti's wouldn't want you to read the book of Mormon because they say its EVIL. If you use the same tactic with the VoG is that not the same?

      Read it.
      Pray about it.
      Get your own witness one way or the other.

      Matt

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  2. Thank you concealed reader! Really excellent!

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  3. Wow, that's all I can say about this entire blog post and the comments made to it. It is simply amazing to me that as LDS's we can be split into to camps 1) those who follow the LIVING PROPHETS and embrace continuos revelation by those in AUTHORITY, and 2) those who, like Denver Snuffer, insist that ancient prophets, along with every tom, dick and harry who claims an "NDE" or vision of some sort, along with "regular Joe's" like Spencer, are the ones to follow. What is really disturbing is that this blog has created a very small group of "Spencer" disciples, and I will call them that, as these people worship Spencer and VoG more than they do the 15 Prophets, Seers, and Revelators who lead the Lord's church. Some how, the small group of Spencer's disciples think they are the "chosen ones", they are the only ones "in the know", and the remainder of the 14 millions LDS's have their heads in the sand, are off the straight and narrow, are hopelessly lost and will be wasted at the Lord's coming because, how dare they be critical of a run of the mill LDS member given the alias of "Spencer". As for me, I'll watch general conference as I always do, and soak in what our leaders counsel us to do. I'm guessing there won't be any mention of "doom & gloom" like Spencer devotees love to hear. And, one more thing...if any of the commenters would take the time to read the 5 points on how to avoid deception by the late Elder Neal A. Maxwell, I think they would see how devoting their lives to "what Spencer says is coming" is not the wisest thing to do. - A very concerned LDS

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    1. Anonymous... this Troll is really Harry Reed.
      Harry to put it simply, "You have to read the book to know what's in the book." Duh!

      Matt

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  4. Anonymous:

    The owner of the blog is FAR from a Spencer worshipper (don't even know what the term means to tell you the truth). He is active LDS. I wouldn't want to be worshipping the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Twelve either. They are men fallible like the rest of us.

    There are many LDS though (not 14 million of them, more like about 10 million if you count the inactives) that do not listen even to the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles who time after time after time have warned us of the consequences of sin, and the consequences of this nation for having abandoned the Godly principles that have founded on. I don't think there is a SINGLE person on this blog that takes the alias Spencer more seriously than Thomas S. Monson. However, it is my supposition that the owner of this blog uses stuff like Spencer and the NDEs as SUPPLEMENTAL knowledge to what is going on in the world, much like I would use Martin Armstrong as SUPPLEMENTAL knowledge to know what is going on in the world economically speaking (and he is pointing to collapse in the 2015-2020 range). The Duane Crowther book on prophecy has been a great resource of SUPPLEMENTAL knowledge for me and for my wife, recommended to me by the owner of the blog.

    I would only like to say this to you as well to many of the other people that are posting here: The General Authorities know exactly what is going on in the world, and many things about the corrupt system that is the United States, are not revealed to us by the GAs because we are not in a position of readiness to accept them. We have allowed ourselves to slumber. Even when someone pipes up and reads the Book of Mormon, or Conference addresses, or even First Presidency messages on the Ensign or Liahona, many people will still continue to fall asleep. But if we have our spiritual eyes and ears tuned, we see that the warnings have become more severe over time.

    Samizdat, an LDS that considers himself awake and desiring to awaken others to our awful situation. Follower of the 15 prophets, seers, and revelators of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Worshipper of God and His Son Jesus Christ. Defender of truth and right. Hates corruption in all of its forms. Able to read and discern the signs of the times. Organizes and prepares with caution and not with haste. A lover of liberty. A despiser of tyranny and ignorance

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  5. Hey Anonymous, thanks for the all caps and for lumping everyone into one bucket. Obviously, you didn't get much out of VoG (if you read it at all). It does not draw readers away from the Brethren or the church (like the work of the excommunicated Snuffer attempts). It doesn't create a cult following. Spencer doesn't make Snuffer claims. VoG changes you into a better member and follower of the GAs. Anyone worshiping Spencer has other issues. Open your mind a little.

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  6. Concerned LDS person- It is very admirable that you are so concerned with everyone else's salvation, however I would say you need to be most concerned with yours. I am definitely not a "Spencer" worshipper, however I admire his courage to share his gift with the world. What does this man have to gain? People thinking him to be crazy or feeling sorry for him because he has been deceived in your eyes? I knew nothing about what I was getting into when I opened that book to pass the time as I traveled. That book was an amazing start to an awakening within my heart. If a person is truly humble and sincere and desirous to learn more what kind of journey The Lord will take you on. Don't worry about us "crazies" on these forums, if we have it all wrong then what do you have to worry about, but if we don't...I pray for you as "you know not what you do!"

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    1. "What does this man have to gain?" A percentage from the sales of the book? Maybe?

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  7. I saw many of the same visions years before I read Visions of Glory. Orem and Provo area under water, tidle waves coming out of the Gulf and striking America. When I read Visions of Glory I just knew it all to be true. Haters just want to hate.

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  8. I read the book July 2013 and loved it. It confirmed many of my own experiences and explained others that I didn't fully understand. I felt a pouring out of the spirit every time I picked it up. I was so excited to share with my husband and told him a little bit about it and read him a chapter....he is one of the skeptics and thought "Spencer" had something to gain, basically he had no interest at all and was even a little annoyed by my enthusiasm with it. But it changed my life completely, for better, for far much better. It opened a whole new shift of consciousness for me and I have become so much more aware of the things I need to be doing in my life and to help bring forth Zion. I am an active LDS woman, I seek and find truth in many different forms. I have tried to share VoG with many only to find most think it is not reliable for various reasons. I myself at times felt resistance in some of the last days parts but I continued to read with an open mind that really anything is possible and found myself softening to all that I felt fearful and resistant about. I am grateful for "Spencer" being willing to share his experiences, it takes guts. I guess I don't understand people commenting negatively, If I don't like something-- I am over it and I move on. I don't feel the need to put it down and publicly (though anonymously) ridicule anyone who likes it. The book opened my eyes to so many possibilities--It was neat to see one way that it could and may all unfold. Gratitude and love to all those whose lives it has changed for the greater cause.

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  9. I too can only bear testimony of the light and understanding that I have received from the Holy Ghost in reading this book. It reminds me of how Paul spoke about seeing through a glass, darkly but then face to face: I know (see 1 Corinthians 13:11-13) , and I find abiding in Spencer’s visions, faith, hope, and Charity,... I too like Paul, see a parallel when he talks in 2 Corinthians 3 starting with v. 15 “But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory even as by the Sprit of the Lord” (V. 15-18). I myself can testify that VOG has allowed be to turn to the Lord in a special way, and for me the veil has been taken away. I too testify that the Lord, Jesus Christ is that Spirit, and I testify of the liberty I have found in so many wonderful ways. Thank you Spencer for allowing me to behold the Lord’s face, and his heart, and I do find myself lifted up from God’s glory to glory. Condemners’s say what you may! I now know my Lord, far better, and have been able to see where I need to magnify my heart, mind, and sole to be one with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I look forward to serving him even with a greater enthusiasm...and faith...and hope to some day here Him call me Friend. With love
    Andrew A. Goldsmith, a fellow Temple Worker and Saint.

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    1. God bless you Andy. I had the same experience. I feel closer to the Savior and more desirous to follow Him after reading this book.

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  10. My life changed in less than a week from reading this book , I was humbled, I was show things in my life that I thought I have lost, I fallow the prophet and my leaders council even more strongly since I read this book, I feel an urge to some day meet Spencer but because I have so many question, but I know some of those question I need to seek and found for my self, once I read the commentary of an educated man that teach religion I think on BYU and he said that it it sad that some people claim to be awaken by this book more than they are by the scriptures, and it maybe so, but for me brought sweetness to my sad life, when I was a young man during the time I serve a mission for the LDS church I had a very sacred and personal experience, that made my faith immutable or so I thought a least for a while , but then I came back home and Satan showed me how angry was at me for choosing that path, years passed, and that immutable faith faded, I almost drawn on depression and dis pare, I was already given up, just going by inertia because of my kids and family, when some day at work I heard commenting about this guy and his visions, I got curious , I went online and google the book and immediately felt the need to read it , so I bought it , I started reading it and by the first day and half thru the night the Spirit was working so hard in me that I felt the need to fall on my knees and ask for forgiveness for giving up , for being ungrateful , for everything , than in that instant I heard a voice saying to me " now do you understand that those thing needed to happen to you to prepare you " I fate the Father's love, His patience for me , than don't ask me how but the purifying power of Spirit cleansed me of my mistakes, but not only that , it also healed my spirit and body , I received promises , and more sacred things that are personal happened to me, all because the person that had this visions was brave enough to share them .
    It is true we should not take things as true just because , we need the confirmation of the Spirit like Moroni says , and let me tell I got one , I just hope and pray every day that the Savior will keep having mercy on me and strengthen me to become the person He wants me to be.

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