I had an interesting comment about tithing:
The law of tithing as taught by Joseph Smith was always intended to be upon a person's surplus. D&C 119 1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion, 5 Verily I say unto you, it shall come to pass that all those who gather unto the land of Zion shall be tithed of their surplus properties, and shall observe this law, or they shall not be found worthy to abide among you. By requiring a person with limited income to pay upon their entire income creates a perpetual cycle of poverty. The man or woman who provides for their family will be always looking for a handout from the church in this scenario. This not only diminishes their sense of personal accomplishment, but creates a welfare state to the church. It literally grinds the faces of the poor. We also misinterpret the scripture in Malachi where we are taught to not rob God. The Lord was talking to the church leader not the member.
I refuse to comment on whether this is right or wrong. I think tithing is a personal thing. I can only share my experience.
My co-worker who is struggling with paying a full tithe right now might be in favor of this statement from the commenter. I know that, for something to have effect, it has to be a sacrifice for that individual. For love to have efficacy, it requires sacrifice. Nothing that comes easy, has value.
Of course, the Atonement is the greatest example. He could have called down a myriad of angels that would have wiped the enemies of righteousness out and excused Him from the suffering he endured on our behalf. But He gave it up voluntarily, knowing that being Holy, His was the only intermediary sacrifice that could be accepted of God on behalf of another. He finished His preparations to the Father and then gave up the ghost, gaining victory over sin and death.
My wife and I were going through the seven year itch (struggle) in our marriage and we were not being good to each other. We were (are) both stubborn and proud. Neither of us wanted to give an inch to the other. So, I was counseling with my Bishop and he asked me to just serve her. As I did, the love and mutual admiration came back into our marriage and love once again blossomed. This man was not much older than she or I, but he had learned a great lesson already that blessed my life: when we sacrifice for someone, we prove our love. As greed and selfishness settle in and become entrenched in a relationship, love is strangled and eventually dies. Thus the injunction, to pray (a form of service, if only verbal) for our enemies and those who despitefully use us.
If we give a portion of ourselves, it allows us to cleave to that which we seek to love. Tithing is just that. The ability to give up what we love (or spend a majority of our time going after in this life) in order to cleave to a greater thing. We need the principle of tithing more than the Lord does. How we choose to manifest that, is up to us - but the greater the sacrifice, the greater the love (for the Lord and His Kingdom) and the greater the blessing. He can only bless us based on our sacrifice.
It must also be remembered that tithing is a lesser law. The truly greater law is one of Consecration, wherein we lay it ALL on the table in the benefit of man.
As far as the $106 billion goes, I really hope that the policies being used to hoard that much are driven by greedy middle managers and not from the top. Or I have to trust that a greater plan than I have the ability to see, is in store. As it stands, I think that is wishful thinking. Regardless, I will live the Law as it has been given, so that I can have the benefit of the blessings. I cannot speak of it publicly, but I have seen so many miracles as of late due to having (attempting to live with) a Consecrated spirit. This is where we all need to be headed if we seek to be a part of what is coming. If not, we will be among those who are not considered the spiritual fittest, will be considered as dross, and burned at His coming. Tithing is one of the sifting principles - that will set those who have Babylon near to their hearts, and those who have cleaved to a higher law.
Do you receive the stimulus payments?
ReplyDeleteJoseph Smith, Jr. was martyred on June 27, 1844. Within six weeks afterwards, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued an epistle declaring that instead of giving of their surplus, the Saints were to henceforth give "a tenth of all their property and money...and then let them continue to pay a tenth of their income from that time forth."
ReplyDeleteThe manuscript of this revelation, which contradicts Section 119, has never been produced. Nor was it ever voted on, per the Law of Common Consent, as a binding law unto the members of the church.
Why pay an amount which was never officially revealed nor approved by the members?
The interpretation by the cited commenter appears to assume a tithe (tenth) was to be calculated on the surplus. The heading to that section clarifies that the use of the term "tithe" is more general. I read this section as requiring all the surplus be given to the church. Then, in addition, a tenth is assessed on the annual interest which has been interpreted and repeatedly reaffirmed by Church leadership to mean income.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me the present implementation is generally more straightforward given our modern economic system and it is consistent with the description in Alma 13:15 "And it was this same Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes; yea, even our father Abraham paid tithes of one-tenth part of all he possessed."
Joseph Smith was commanded to re-translate the Bible after he translated the BoM. In the JST, Genesis 14:39, Joseph changed the wording from the KJV to say:
Delete"39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need."
So Abraham paid tithes on his EXCESS, which aligns more closely with the wording of D&C 119.
Leaders interpreting interest to mean income is a huge stretch. Think about it, would you equate the interest you pay on your mortgage each month to the principal? Of course not! Interest means a fractional amount.
Leaders can be well-intentioned but mistaken or uninformed. They grew up in the same church you and I did, being taught the same things we were.
In Websters 1828 dictionary, which would have been the dictionary Joseph was familiar with, the word 'interest' had several definitions. They are:
1. Influence over others.
2. Share; portion; part; participation in value.
3. Regard to private profit.
4. Premium paid for the use of money;
5. Any surplus advantage.
It seems to me that #5, or possibly #2, would be the only meanings that would have relevance to Section 119. NONE of these definitions could be interpreted as meaning your entire income.
While I agree with the OP that tithing is a commandment and brings blessings, I don't believe it was meant to be so burdensome that people would have to go on welfare or go without food. Surely God will bless them for their faith, but it doesn't appear He intended tithing to impoverish people.
On a personal note, many years ago I was struggling to make ends meet and had racked up tens of thousands of dollars of unsecured debt because my salary couldn't support the needs of a growing family of seven people.
In desperation I had paid thousands to financial advisers (using my credit card :-() to help me find a way to stop the hemorrhaging. I was going in the hole every month and having to put it all on multiple credit cards. We ended up losing our house and eventually ended up, all 7 of us, living in my parents basement.
During all of that, as a proud Phari-saint, I refused to stop paying a full tithe on my gross income. The amount I was paying on tithing was almost the exact amount I was going into debt every month. Still, I believed God required it of me, so I obeyed.
It was several months later, after I had lost my house, my good credit, my mental health and almost lost my marriage, while reading some articles about tithing in the early church, that the Lord helped me come to understand that I only need to pay tithing on my surplus. He NEVER intends for us to pay tithing to the detriment of those over whom we have been given responsibility.
He gave us men a strong commandment to provide for our families:
D&C 75:28
"And again, verily I say unto you, that every man who is obliged to provide for his own family, let him provide, and he shall in nowise lose his crown; and let him labor in the church."
1 Timothy 5:8
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
Since that time, I have paid tithing only on the excess. And, yes, God has continued to bless me, even more abundantly than before, far beyond what I could have anticipated. You could even say the "windows of heaven" have been opened to me and my family. It's a true principle.
We have a tendency, if we are faithful to God and the church, to be zealots, taking things to an extreme to demonstrate our "righteousness", if not to others then to God. But the Lord doesn't want extremists, He just wants simple faithfulness and diligence in doing good to all.
This blog post does a deep dive on the historical application of tithing in the church.
http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html
Don't you think that the "billions" in tithing is more or less invested in stocks which is why it hasn't been spent. The daily interest it's growing in this stock market must be mind boggling. Maybe they give a percentage of the donations and invest the other portion towards investments so they are prepared for a rainy day.
ReplyDeleteThe only debate about tithing, as far as I'm concerned, is whether it should be paid on taxed income. Taxed income is not part of your increase, surplus, or possessions. And, I have no problem with the church being wealthy. If it's the Lord's church, it darn well better be wealthy--it's a signal that it's being blessed, that the money will be needed, and that the money isn't going into the hands of corrupt leaders--which is exactly what would be occurring if the church weren't what it purports to be.
ReplyDelete"For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet."
Delete"And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."
Elder John A. Widtsoe explained: “Tithing means one-tenth. Those who give less do not really pay tithing; they are lesser contributors to the Latter-day cause of the Lord. Tithing means one-tenth of a person’s income, interest, or increase. The merchant should pay tithing upon the net income of his business, the farmer upon the net income of his farming operations; the wage earner or salaried man upon the wage or salary earned by him. Out of the remaining nine-tenths he pays his current expenses … etc. To deduct living costs … and similar expenses from the income and pay tithing upon the remainder does not conform to the Lord’s commandment. Under such a system most people would show nothing on which to pay tithing. There is really no place for quibbling on this point. Tithing should be given upon the basis of our full earned income. If the nature of a business requires special interpretation, the tithepayer should consult the father of his ward, the bishop.” (Evidences and Reconciliations, 2:86.)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I would like to thank you for the time and effort you put in to maintain and add to this blog.
ReplyDeleteMy question to Mr Leblanc is, do we ignore D&C? is the D&C becoming obsolete?
In the early days of the Church in Utah, the Church was financially struggling. Jesse Knight had struck it rich with a gold mine that was revealed to him, at a time when the Church discouraged people from wasting their time searching for gold. Jesse provided the Church with money they needed at the right time to prevent there properties from being lost.
This discussion on tithing made me realize that the people were likely paying tithing according to D&C, which could be one of the reasons why the Church was struggling, but you notice that the Church received help from Knight in the nick of time. I imagine that the Church Leadership was stressed by these stresses.... maybe they needed to exercise their faith. Maybe it wouldn't hurt the Church to exercise more faith and stop burdening the poor.
As stake missionaries, my wife and I were working with a young single mother who lost custody of her children and who's ex some how was extorting money from her via the courts somehow and we were teaching her about tithing and paying a tenth of her income. she simply said I just don't have that money. Of course as the blind leading the blind we tried to convince her of the benefit to pay a tenth and the Church would provide the rest of her support.
I now feel guilty and terrible about the position we put that young struggling women in. It makes me mad!! Maybe we should be paying more attention to the D&C and Joseph Jr.