I LOVED this commenter for their passion on this subject - esp since they appear to be female. This is rare on this topic. Indeed, why would being married (and even to more than one wife) make Jesus dirty or sullied. Not in my book. I cannot imagine why many women would NOT want to be married to such a man simultaneously. If I knew of a woman on par with His greatness, I would gladly take a number to many others just to have a piece of that equivalent greatness. For some reason, I do NOT struggle with this concept in the least.
While I am passionately pontificating - this is the legacy of plural marriage. Women think they are always shorted in this matter (usually because they think in a purely temporal manner that they might only be able to share a bed or snuggle a few times a year with their man) - and I can tell them that they are not shorted in an eternal scheme of things where they are no longer bound by the constraints of time and space!!
Women, by their own agency, can leave their man (if the man is not meeting her eternal needs) and she can TRADE UP to a more godly man who will take her the distance meeting her emotional, mental, physical and sexual (if that is even a concern up there) needs...... If anything, the men get the short end of the stick - at least those who refuse to rise up and be men of God. It truly is SURVIVAL OF THE SPIRITUAL FITTEST in the Kingdom of God. When I discovered this by personal revelation, I about shouted for joy - because the principle was so enlarging for all my female friends whom have been given a short stick in life and I had felt so bad over up until that point. I no longer mourn for the single women of the world who remain faithful to the principles of heaven - precisely because they cannot comprehend the glory that awaits them if they are patient but for a small moment. If you are in tune, the Spirit is witnessing this to you as He is this to me.
This principle is eternal and perfect. THIS is the reason I believe my mother came back and told my father he was fine to marry another in this life (after she had passed) - because she was shown this eternal perspective. This experience along with "giving" my son over to the Lord for His purposes is what set my heart on a walk towards true Consecrated living. Nothing for me - but only what is best for others and in the interests of God. All else WILL take care of itself.
Here is the comment that I loved so much:
WHY would anyone anyway want to deny Jesus the Christ the blessings of marriage and children. Does it make Him filthy or less holy? I once asked my husband, "WHO is the first person you would come back to see after you die?" Of course the answer was me, his wife! I might add.....the right answer.
And WHO is the FIRST person Jesus Christ showed Himself to? Mary. Was that just by coincidence? Whom else other than his wife would know Him better to testify she has seen the Risen Lord? And how would she feel if she heard it and wasn't the first person to see Him? "What? You saw my husband? Alive?" AND she was probably hugging Him so fiercely which is why He said to her, "Detain me not". NOT "don't touch me, you'll make me dirty". Like she could do that to Him anyway? Never have figured out why folks don't reason that out in their minds.......
Oh no, it wasn't just to ANY woman the Risen Lord appeared to FIRST before anyone else.
This truth is the biggest thorn in the theology of Catholicism.
Jesus Christ obtained ALL that the Father has. Eternal life, Celestial marriage, a forever family. For neither is the man without the woman and the woman without the man. Adam and Eve were married ETERNALLY BEFORE THE FALL. It started with them and what God hath joined together and instituted man can NEVER put asunder.
Last night I came to a conclusion. Gay people can NEVER qualify to be, nor proclaim to be Christians/Disciples of Jesus Christ. ADAM AND EVE put an end to the gay marriage issue within the realm of Christianity.
You cannot follow God into His Kingdom to live forever while denying His word/commandments as given in the scriptures.
The Bible explicitly and implicitly condemns homosexuality in all its forms.
Genesis 19:4ff
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Judges 19:22
Romans 1:24
I Corinthians 6:9-10
I Timothy 1:10
Jude 1:7
But it's not about homosexuality. It is about sexual immorality in all its forms. It was because of sexual immorality that the land of Canaan was overthrown by God using Israel.
The God of Heaven loves all of His children and desires their eternal happiness and eternal home with Him.
The life God lives never will include sexual immorality abiding in His presence. HE IS HOLY! NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER HIS KINGDOM!
HE makes the rules folks. Get used to it. Time is a teller of all things and TRUTH lives on forever. Sooner or later, in the name of Israel's God, I testify that the sexually immoral will be swept from this earth forever. It happened once by water, this time it will be by fire and it will be the last time and it will stick. NO do-overs.
If Church members have bees in their bonnets about the OLDEST commandment on marriage/sex since the CREATION, better repent and take it up with God or don't you remember WHO is running this Church to begin with?
Perhaps you enjoy being prick kickers.
Iraq's commenter wrote:
ReplyDelete"Gay people can NEVER qualify to be, nor proclaim to be Christians/Disciples of Jesus Christ."
Really? C'mon now, folks, let us reason together.
What about a celibate gay person who loves the Lord with all his/her heart and is enduring the end?
"Gay people can NEVER qualify to be, nor proclaim to be Christians/Disciples of Jesus Christ."
Deletewhy the generalizing here? members who are experiencing same sex attraction and living the commandments of God, keeping themselves morally clean, can participate in everything the church has to offer. They can have callings, go to the temple and even wok in the temple. Lets be careful with our words.
Really pati? Can you answer this.....will those who have same sex attraction, taking those UNHOLY thoughts/desires inside the holy temple fool God? Will they qualify for entrance into the Celestial Kingdom? They ought to be to ashamed to even enter the holy temple with such issues. Why? Because they answered "YES" to the question posed by their Bishop and Stake Presidency, "Do you feel worthy to enter the temple?". When on the inside they're sexually attracted to members of the same gender and that means they're THINKING about it. They can fool God's servants but NOT the Holy Ghost, nor Father, nor Jesus the Christ. They'll never get past the KEEPER OF THE GATE with those thoughts.
DeleteAgain, original commenter here. I wash my hands in the subject. NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Isaiah speaks of members in the latter days who pollute the holy temple to bring upon us God's wrath. That's why He's going to sweep around His own front door first.
The Lord understands all the imaginations of the thoughts. 1 Chr. 28:9
Carnally minded is death, spiritually minded is life eternal. 2 Ne 9:39
If ye do not watch yourselves and your thoughts ye must perish. Mosiah 4:30
As he thinketh in his heart, so is he. Prov 23:7
Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly. D&C 121:45
Our thoughts will condemn us. Alma 12:14
The thoughts of men's hearts will be revealed.
I stand by what I've said. We must be washed CLEAN of ALL of our SINS. We must look unto the Son of God to make us CLEAN EVERY WHIT.
This is the way it is and if I must bear down in pure testimony against you, so be it. You can't deny God's commandments nor His justice and you must cry repentance to the ungodly. You're doing them a favor, not hurting them. Perhaps being convicted with the fire of the Spirit is what they need from you. Not coddling. They need to be scared STRAIGHT and repent.
if you learn about Hebrew history you realize that to be a Rabbi, among other things you wore a beard, and you had to be married by age 21. Christ appearing to his wife, eternal companion first...making sure she knew He was ok ...its the most obvious thing.
ReplyDeleteTo those who suffer from same-sex attraction, I would like to add hope to each and everyone of those so afflicted this:
ReplyDelete3 Nephi 17:8-10
8 For I perceive that ye desire that I should show unto you what I have done unto your brethren at Jerusalem, for I see that your faith is sufficient that I should heal you.
9 And it came to pass that when he had thus spoken, all the multitude, with one accord, did go forth with their sick and their afflicted, and their lame, and with their blind, and with their dumb, and with all them that were afflicted in any manner; and he did heal them every one as they were brought forth unto him.
10 And they did all, both they who had been healed and they who were whole, bow down at his feet, and did worship him; and as many as could come for the multitude did kiss his feet, insomuch that they did bathe his feet with their tears.
There isn't any affliction that Christ cannot heal. This includes any sexual desires for anyone other than their beloved opposite gender spouse. Period. Everyone can and needs to have all of our desires in perfect alignment with God. We must strive to have pure and holy desires. It is a struggle for everyone at times to keep our desires at-one-ment with the Lord, but we are commanded to keep striving to do so. Can Christ take from everyone who truly desires it any and all unholy desires? Absolutely! If He can change Alma, the younger from what he was to the holy person he became, then there isn't anyone who cannot not be healed of any impure and unholy desire. I write these things out of love for all.
YES!!...Amen Sister, well said!
ReplyDeleteA celibate gay person is STILL gay. Their thoughts and desires are still unholy. They're still GAY and struggling to get God to look upon their situation with a degree of allowance. Ain't happenin'. They're not repentant and changed.
ReplyDeleteTheir celibacy is outright rebellion to multiply and replenish the earth. FAMILY IS FOREVER, not homosexuality. Do you honestly believe the Lord will accept a celibate GAY person into the highest Kingdom where He dwells?
Once again, someone who tries to reason away acceptance of homosexuality.
The only hope for these people is complete healing by God that leads to Celestial Marriage to the OPPOSITE SEX with the DESIRE TO BEGET CHILDREN AS HE FASHIONED OUR BODIES TO DO.
They have to want this change and make it happen or be damned (stopped in spiritual progression). They need priesthood authority to rebuke the evil influence that has taken hold of them. No one is born gay. We weren't GAY in pre-earth life. God doesn't create GAY people. That is totally contradictory and sets you up to not keep His commandments when you get here. People CHOOSE to be Gay.
There's NO PLACE FOR HOMOSEXUALITY in thought or action in the Kingdom of God. So basically they WOULD act out on it if it were okay. They think not acting on it appeases God and qualifies them for entrance into His kingdom. And if they're not acting on it out of shame knowing God forbids it saying "I love you God but this is who I am, take it or leave it." He'll leave it. They're not gaining a reward, only keeping themselves from receiving a greater degree of punishment.
They are God's children to be sure and He loves them. The beauty of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that His LAWS apply to ALL OF US and that He doesn't play favorites. Those who keep His laws will spiritually progress.
So, NO, a Gay person can NEVER qualify to be, nor proclaim to be a Christian/Disciple of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ isn't gay, never was or will be, condemns it, and floods the earth with water to drown or reigns fire down from Heaven on those who are. However, a fully repentant Gay person who is NO LONGER GAY, living the laws of God DOES QUALIFY and CAN PROCLAIM IT!
It's in the scriptures how God feels about it and what He does about it. Take it up with Him.
I'm the original commenter. I've met gay people. I don't judge them, only what they do/desire by God's standards and commandments. Some of them are good and kind which is pleasing to God. It's their lifestyle and desires that are keeping them from obtaining all God has to offer and you can't excuse that away. No matter how good you are, or how much good you do, God won't allow the GAY SIDE OF YOU into HIS KINGDOM. It has to be destroyed from being a part of you forever before the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord comes.
“Women, by their own agency, can leave their man (if the man is not meeting her eternal needs) and she can TRADE UP to a more godly man who will take her the distance meeting her emotional, mental, physical and sexual (if that is even a concern up there) needs...... If anything, the men get the short end of the stick - at least those who refuse to rise up and be men of God. It truly is SURVIVAL OF THE SPIRITUAL FITTEST in the Kingdom of God.”
ReplyDeleteI had to add something to this.
If a man is married in the temple and isn’t prepared for eternal life and the wife is, she will inherit exaltation on the arm of another man who is.
D&C 132:19
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
“ ... sealed unto tho them by the Holy Spirit of Promise.” That begins when one is filled with the Holy Spirit and Heavenly Father speaks to that person’s in their heart and their mind and then say unto to them, calling them by their first name that they were given when they were born, my son or daughter whichever the case maybe, “Thou shall be exalted. Thou shall gain eternal life.”
Only couples, married in the temple, who each individually have the above experience can truly say that their marriage will be eternal. If, for instance, the husband does not prove faithful in qualifying for eternal life, then the woman is free to be sealed to someone else.
if a woman is damaged by someone to the point that they cannot bare the thought of marriage in this life... will she have the chance to later? I think yes. If a man (or woman) is damaged, or develop to the point that marriage as God has intended is unbearable in this life because of same sex attractions.... and they choose to be celibate instead of physically sinning.... will they have the chance to partake of the blessings of healing and marriage later. I believe yes. How many heterosexual people seek to deny blessings to those that have homosexual attraction that are trying to stay chaste.... yet those that condemn have had premarital sex... encouraged abortions to hide their sin.... then pointed those dirty blood stained fingers to others.
ReplyDeleteI am not disapproving of the Church's announcement (I am very in favor of it).... but comments like the anonymous from 11/13 @ 10:57 make me so disappointed... and have no compassion for these people.
"For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold, this day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors." (Alma 34:32-34)
Delete"Those that seek me EARLY shall FIND ME." (Proverbs 8:17)
So they continue to MENTALLY sin instead of seeking COMPLETE healing NOW from God while it is still called today What? Jesus Christ can't heal them NOW of this affliction?
You imply that He can't heal the "damaged to the point that marriage as God has intended is unbearable in this life because of same sex attractions"? UNQUOTE Remaining celibate only proves they're in a state of accountability.
"Ye cannot say when you are brought to that awful crisis that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies AT THE TIME THAT YE GO OUT OF THIS LIFE, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world." (Alma 34:34)
If you can't be healed of SINS now while it is called today, it means you aren't ready to "give them all away to know Him". He can and will provide a way for those who truly desire to keep His commandments to keep them until He comes back for them.
The terms homosexual and heterosexual are man made labels. There are only individuals who are clean or unclean in God's sight.
Homosexual attraction is SIN. Unholy desires and thoughts that offend the Holy Ghost cause Him to withdraw His presence. President Kimball taught us, "every action is proceeded by a thought". It means you are unclean by God's standards if you entertain fantasies and thoughts of pairing up with someone of the same gender.
God loves sinners, not the sin. I love them too! If we don't repent when we know we sin, God will cleanse us from the earth. We need to take advantage of the Atonement NOW.
I'm not sorry to disappoint you. I understand compassion enough to cry repentance. I, too, like the sons of Mosiah perish at the thought of someone being sent to hell. The thought that Satan won another soul away from God to live in endless torment as is stated in Mosiah 3. "from whence they can no more return" pains my soul. I, like Jude, wish to "snatch them away" from the fire.
God will force no man/woman to Heaven. Some may wish to ignore that our God of Love is also a God of Wrath. It was JESUS CHRIST who destroyed the wicked before appearing to the Nephites! Tell Him He's not compassionate.
The Touched by an Angel crowd says "Oh God wouldn't do a thing like that!"
Don't you bet on it! He's deadly and conquers ALL of His enemies EVERY TIME now and forever.
The natural man is an ENEMY to God and will be forever unless he puts off the natural man and yields to the enticement of the Holy Ghost.
There's no rationalizing away God's laws and standards. They literally are written in stone. Jesus warned of Hell a lot during His earthly ministry and still does as the Risen Lord.
I'm not hard hearted. Quite the opposite. I've been warned and I care enough to warn my neighbor.
"For I the Lord am able to make you holy". (D&C 60:7) Now...today!
Jesus Christ makes no excuses for His word. You're on dangerous ground trying to excuse His word on sexual immorality in all it's forms to those accountable. .
I have the stories of Samuel the Lamanite, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to keep me good company. They too, cried repentance out of love for the sinner and obedience to God amongst the wicked boldly.
Like them, I do not fear the arrows, nor the fiery furnace for holding up God's Word. If the arrows strike or the furnace burns, His will be done in all things. I will endure it well and meet you at the judgment bar.
so, you never answered my first question... now here is another. Which is more acceptable? The gay man that chooses to be celibate because he has not yet achieved healing of his gay tendencies, and does not wish to bring that to a marriage.... or the bishop/stake president/active priesthood holder that has a happy shell of a life with a wife and children.... while hiding a long term porn addiction (often started as a young teen even.... about the time some boys find they have gay tendencies).
ReplyDelete"so, you never answered my first question... now here is another. Which is more acceptable? The gay man that chooses to be celibate because he has not yet achieved healing of his gay tendencies, and does not wish to bring that to a marriage.... or the bishop/stake president/active priesthood holder that has a happy shell of a life with a wife and children.... while hiding a long term porn addiction (often started as a young teen even.... about the time some boys find they have gay tendencies)."
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, Shelley w. No one is born gay, period. No one asked for or agreed to have same sex gender attraction as a trial to overcome in this life prior to this life. Everyone who suffers from same sex attraction decided in this life to have those desires. The only answer to become free from all impure and unholy desires is Jesus Christ. For He is mighty to save. Only He can save each and every one of us from all impure and unholy desires. The Lord will expose the hypocrites who claim that they are faithful to God and who think that they can hide thier iniquities. The person who claims that God made them with same sex gender attraction is being deceived by Satan. The sooner that we surrender fully to Jesus and seek healing from Him everything that is amiss in our lives, the sooner we can stand in holy places having been made pure and holy in the eyes of God through the Atonement of Christ. Anytime we tell ourselves that this is the way that I am and that I cannot change, Satan wins, we lose.
I never said they were born gay. My first comment uses the words damaged and develop. Most of the gay men I have known were molested as young children by male family or friends... a couple say they do not believe they were abused in any way (hence the use of the word develop instead of damaged)..... I am thankful that it is my Savior, Jesus Christ that will be the judge of each of us.... and that he knows every pain, sin, and strength within us. None of us is capable of overcoming all our sins in this life, not even you. Some sins are easy to see, and therefore point out and ridicule.... It is not my job to determine now, if someone should be denied blessings in the life to come, because he or she had not yet attained peace from sins & sorrows. It is my privilege to bare one another's burdens, and mourn with those that mourn.... thereby, though I am imperfect, I may help others of Gods children come unto him....
ReplyDeleteNow anonymous troll.... no more questions for you, since you are still incapable of answering ones previously asked...
Name calling Shelley w.?. I forgive you.
DeleteThe "which is more acceptable" question isn't difficult. NEITHER OF THEM. Once again.......NO UNCLEAN THING CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
No one here is finger pointing and condemning.
God dwells in everlasting burnings that cannot be handled nor controlled but consumes all that is UNHOLY before Him.
He cannot TOLERATE SIN or UNCLEANESS in the least degree.
The bottom line is that all who would DESIRE a place in God's kingdom MUST be made CLEAN and HOLY before they can enter. Would you agree with that?
I think your argument is that the gay men you know were "made sexually immoral or gay" at the hands of others using their agency in a sinful way or they just "developed" that way. Is that correct?
So now that they're gay, they can't help it and either participate in it or not living a life of being messed up to the point of not desiring to do things God's way. Is that also a correct analysis of your question?
None of us has all the answers to the complicated scenario you put forth. Only God has that ability and power. Everyone's circumstances are different. God knows the hearts, thoughts, intentions, capabilities, circumstances of all. But....to be where He is...a change from unclean to clean has to take place on His terms and judgments. Would you agree with that?
All wrongs will be righted and you can sleep at night knowing your gay friends will have their day in His court and that He will reward them with the MOST He can give them and punish them with the LEAST He must mete out if applicable which I hope isn't necessary. Same goes for the rest of us.
It is my hope and prayer that we all are pronounced clean and worthy to go home and live the life our Father lives and desires to bless us with. But we have to be worthy of it one way or another. He decides who is and isn't and we accept it without question that His judgments are just. Can we agree on that and leave the whole matter to God?
God help those who contributed to those who were molested being messed up. They're sick people and in a lot of trouble. One day Satan's power will be gone for good! Praise God for that day!
Group hug everybody!