For anyone who reads a random post on this blog, one might think that there is a little "Spencer" or "Visions of Glory" worship going on. Just as a neighbor who observes me hopping in my car several times on Sunday and going places might think that I am treating the Sabbath no different than any other day - when in reality, I am racing around serving others instead of my family or myself. Not having the full picture causes us to mis-judge and to err in many instances. In many cases, those errors in judgment can be fatal, so we must exercise caution.
For years, I have known something is coming that will cause a refugee situation in the SL valley and then I realized there would be an "event" on the West Coast that would pale what occurred in Utah - precisely because Utah would be a haven for those seeking refuge from what had occurred on the coast. If things were not better in Utah than they were on the coast, why would people go to Utah to try and find something they could not get on the coast?
A little logic goes a long way when "seeing" what the scriptures are talking about. We have to have the gift of prophecy first of all (which is the testimony of Jesus - and the basis of all of our actions). Then we must move forward with the spirit of seeking and then knocking (importuning the Lord until he "wearies" of our knocking) and must answer our call at His door. A half-hearted effort or something short of a full measure will not do. We must have a humble heart and a contrite spirit - being stripped of all pride. This is the price that must be paid for that prize. We must give all our cares to our Lord. If this (blog) stuff fills you with dread and worry (after having done all you can do), then you are not there yet and have not learned to walk daily with the Lord. The Lord does not dwell in fear. I just talked to a co-worker in the belly of a 747 the other night. He was raised Catholic - and was angry at God, because God had been taught to him as one who is vicious and spiteful. It is not so. I fear God - not because he is some tyrant - but rather I "respect", not fear him because His judgments are just - and I know I cannot live as a filthy, sin-filled individual in His presence without the cleansing blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. God WANTS me to return to live with Him and I know that simply by looking at all the people he has thrown into the fight only to have them mowed down and killed for having delivered their message faithfully - in an attempt to bring a glimmer of light and knowledge to a wicked and dying world. I accept Christ, not out of fear of reprisal, but out of love knowing that a loving Father (and Mother) in heaven have provided this "way out" for me to bring me back into their presence. This by way of the Holy Ghost leading me to the Son, the Son leading me to my Heavenly Parents. Is there any greater message than that? There should be no greater desire in our hearts than this.
There are those out there who will yell, BLASPHEMY!! I pity them for being ignorant of things as they are. When they say that there is no connection to the receiving of the Second Comforter or Second Anointing and the standing Prophet of God (or the 15 Apostles, for that matter). I tell them that they have not read enough, nor considered enough to make a judgment call. One of the people I have featured on this blog, long before Spencer came along, was Iohanni Wolfgramm. I was, incidentally, turned on to him by one of my favorite Apostles, whom I do not worship, but who I hold in high esteem and felt enough for, that we named our departed son after; Dallin H. Oaks. In an Ensign article on faith and miracles in the modern church, Dallin mentioned how Iohanni had raised his own daughter from the dead using his faith and Priesthood power. I was interested, so I used the internet to get up to speed on him. I would lose my own son within 6 months to a year of learning of Iohani - and have an extremely similar event with different outcomes, based on the will of the Lord (previous blog post).
Iohani and Oaks were no doubt in somewhat regular contact - both working in the Church office building and Iohanni serving in the SL Temple daily when he was not on a mission. Iohanni was also on a first-name basis with President Kimball and was called to his apartment before a mission call change from Mexico City, Mexico to Tonga to call all of the islands there to repentance. IF they did not repent, President Kimball said they would all be destroyed with a large wave. President Kimball said that Iohanni would receive personal instructions of the Lord (C&E, or personal visitation of the Lord, or Second Comforter - however you want to name it) within three days of his arriving in Tonga with his wife. His book (that the daughter who was raised from the dead from a head crush injury of a Willy's Jeep in WWII put out there), outlines his C&E and it is a mighty revelation. It is a fluke that I have a copy of it as it was only meant for close family. I have only one copy and have only passed it to special people - so make sure your husband is reading it, Emily! Your lives will be blessed for it - and for the increased power in the Priesthood that you will enjoy in your home.......
So - what is my point here? If you are not acquainted with the process of receiving your C&E or a parallel Second Anointing, there is a process. Many I allude to here on the blog, have made it to that point. Iohanni was one. Typically, the Prophet is aware of that member who receives that status. They are not out there "going it alone" as a "lone wolf". They are under direction of the 12 and a legal representative of the Savior on this earth - so I would be careful what unfounded things I were to say in that regard. I do not slander them - precisely because I know more things than you do - by study and by faith and by seeking these things out. I will also very bluntly say - you are wrong in saying that these things will not be or come to pass as I have stated them. Why? Because one, who was called into the apartment of one of my favorite sojourners, President Kimball, who then was called into the presence of the Lord (another personal favorite of mine), said that there will be a massive EQ on the Wasatch Front, and that there will be a nuke north of SL (read Hill AFB) and that we all are under terrible condemnation if we do not immediately repent. This particular person was commended of the Lord by a recognized servant of the Lord in an official journal of His Church...... So, I would humbly submit that the next time you see me, ask if you can have a copy of his testimony and journal so that you can judge for yourself. If you are humble enough to do so, I recommend you repent immediately of your blindness, or stand in judgment of a rebuking by those whom you condemn by association; Dallin H. Oaks, Spencer W. Kimball and one who has the authority and power in the Priesthood to have raised no less than two people from the dead and many other modern miracles on par with Nephi and others of old. You are on the losing side of judgment - and that is never a good place to be - if you choose to hold company with any of these people one day. We have been promised that our words will condemn us at the judgment bar - unless we repent and mend our ways while it is yet day - before the darkness descends and no man can perform further labors.
Ok, let me see if I have this straight. An un-named rank and file (holds no priesthood keys) LDS member had some dreams during his life. He wants to share them, so he has somebody else write a book about them. The book sells about 30,000 copies, mostly to LDS’s who hunger for “more” than what the Prophets have revealed. The book contains many large errors about how Christ interacts with people, the afterlife and degrees of glory and perdition, but no matter, people believe the book to be “true” nonetheless. These “Spencer” disciples become fiercely defensive of “Spencer”, who knows more than the 15 prophets, seers, & revelators. The 15 prophets have tired of telling the 14 million LDS’s to repent & prepare for “what’s coming”, so they have silenced themselves and stopped speaking about 2nd coming events. The 14 million LDS’s are left to wander in darkness regarding “signs of the times” other than what the canonized scriptures say, unless they happen to discover “Visions of Glory” which spells it all out with 100% accuracy, and then they become part of the select few “enlightened” members who are “awake”. Anybody who challenges “Spencer” is immediately branded ignorant of the scriptures, and not understanding basic revelation, and “spiritually immature”. It still does not matter that others who profess superior knowledge like Dr. David Cohen, who staked his reputation on the “7th seal being opened on exactly Sept 22, 2011 by a super nova from Betelgeuse which is 600 light years from earth, which event never happened, thus Dr. Cohen was a fraud. Nor does it matter that Betty Eadie told some tall “NDE” tales in “Embraced by the Light”, thus a fraud. Or that GA Paul H. Dunn was caught telling fibs for most of his adult life in all his books, thus leading people astray. Do I have this about right? I have not heard of many Stake Presidents and Bishops raving about “VOG”, and spreading the word that you’ve got to read this! This Spencer guy is right on the money! Just how the leaders of the LDS church rely on some anonymous story to “get the word out”, because nobody is listening to them, I’ll never know.
ReplyDeleteThere has been much judgment passed on of me because I dare to challenge Spencer, while those who defend Spencer apparently are free from being judgmental themselves. Go figure.
I’ve included 3 articles from official LDS publications by Neal A. Maxwell, and Dallin H. Oaks that I’d like everyone “piling on” me to read, and then some blog posts about what each of these 3 articles really mean:
1) http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765638091/Five-ways-Latter-day-Saints-can-detect-and-avoid-doctrinal-deception.html?pg=all
2) http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=570
3) https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2004/10/be-not-deceived?lang=eng
Just because someone doesn’t agree with Spencer, does not mean they don’t follow the 15 living prophets and have plenty of food storage and emergency supplies, always pays a full tithe, holds a current temple recommend along with BS and MS degrees from BYU, and have actually held Priesthood keys recently. The world around us is filled with disasters, and it’s only common sense to obey our priesthood leaders and be prepared. - Annonymous...just like Spencer.
Holy smokes, anon - and congrats again! You completely missed the boat again. This article was not about Spencer. It was about Iohanni - and he said the EXACT SAME THING will happen that Spencer said. And he had all the proper stamps on his passport that you seek. If you had read Visions, you would know that Spencer did, as well...... You may have an MS from BYU, but I think you need your hearing and your eyesight checked..... spiritually speaking, of course. I have two copies of Visions and if there were only 30,000 copies sold, if they are like mine, then 200,000 people have actually probably read it. Getting nearer to market saturation than you might realize....... Hey, I have a suggestion that will allow you to expend your energy positively. Go to Seagull and launch a formal protest and see if they won't pull the book. I think you would feel better about yourself and could answer in the affirmative that you really had done much good in the world today....... For those that had copies, we would just have to double down in our efforts to pass this thing around! :)
ReplyDeletePointless to argue about this. We'll know what we know when the ground begins to shake...
ReplyDeleteI understand the point Anonymous #1 is trying to make but I strongly disagree. Moroni 7:16 says “For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.” Simply because Spencer had a revelation, got permission from the Lord to share it, and enabled a book to be written doesn’t mean his experience somehow undermines the 15 prophets, seers, and revelators who, under the direction of Jesus Christ, lead the church. As far as I have been able to determine, and having reviewed the links Anonymous #1 provided, this book falls in the category of a “thing which inviteth to do good and to persuade to believe in Christ.”
ReplyDeleteI agree with Elder Oaks that we need to be careful that we are not led away. I also agree with Robert L. Millett that we need to study the scriptures to avoid being led away. It’s true that there are a lot of books, articles, videos and the like that contain false doctrine. However, I believe it was Brigham Young who said that we claim all truth whether it comes from heaven or from the depths of hell. We are also told to study “the best books.” I doubt these “best books” are limited only to the standard works.
I haven’t yet read Visions of Glory. My copy will be delivered today. But, I haven’t had any problems with what Spencer said in the audio link Iraq posted and I felt the Spirit confirm much of what he said. If Spencer really had these experiences then, as a priesthood holder and member of the church, he is one of the Lord’s anointed. He’s not on the same level as our 15 prophets because his is personal revelation meant for himself. However, he stated that he didn’t share it until he got permission from the Lord.
I'm surprised at the way members cannot separate the General Authorities from revelation and visions and prophecy. A few thoughts:
ReplyDelete-Our scriptural, official definition of a prophet: "In a general sense a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost."
-The church is the Lord's kingdom on earth, and the GAs are its administrators. They will receive revelation regarding how to administer the church, about providing spiritual guidance, and they hold the keys of salvation for the living and dead. If the Lord wants to introduce additional doctrine, scripture, or let us know what to do or where to go and how to act, the GAs will receive this information.
-The GAs will receive revelation about the need to prepare and how to prepare. They will not receive revelation or divulge information about a coming calamity. Administrators of a massive organization cannot say things that create panic. And they don't need to say anything. They've warned us already to prepare.
-Spencer's experience was not intended for the body of the church. It was for him. Like almost every other visionary or prophet in history, Spencer was not at the time acting as an official General Authority of the Church of Jesus Christ, past or present. Not Nephi, not Lehi, not Joseph Smith. Even in Spencer's vision, he took orders from the Brethren.
-There's nothing in his account that contradicts doctrine. It might contradict your version or interpretation of our doctrine, which is probably an incorrect interpretation anyway, and you cling to your interpretation because it makes you feel comfortable. There's infinitely more we do not know than what we do know regarding the last days, the Spirit World, heaven, and the cosmos.
-VoG isn't creating a cult following or leading people away from the GAs. It's strengthening the members.
-Scriptures tell us that in the last days, men will have visions and dream dreams. It's not up to us to say who did or did not experience one. If you don't want to believe Spencer's account, don't read it. But please don't condescend and belittle others with your self righteous attitude, when you don't know anymore than the rest of us about what's coming.