Since being at Julie Rowe's presentation Saturday evening, I have been pondering the experience. I think D&C 9:8-9 applies. 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. 9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me. I think the confusing, disorganized message she gave was confirmation to me that it is a false message. Truth and light would not be confusing. In saying this, I am not discounting when she quotes the Apostles and Prophets, just her near death experience and her timing and interpretation of the future events that are foretold in the scriptures
So, I am not sure how to take it. I have the following to say.
Number one, I am a rambler. Julie is rather close to the Spirit, and always waits for input before answering a question. So it will appear that she is a little off. My guess is, there were people there that were not supposed to hear her message, so she chose her words carefully and watered things down in order to be compliant to the dictates of the Spirit. I had a boss at my second job out of college that characterized me the same way - said I spoke like I was picking my words carefully. Indeed I was. He was under condemnation for what he was doing in his life at the time, eventually threatened my wife and newborn baby and I had to turn it over to the Lord. He was crushed in the wreckage that came out of that. I was following the Spirit in what I said and how I handled everything. I get that way, when I know I have to walk a fine line.....
She is under very large amounts of stress. I think there is worry for personal safety and that of her family. That could be taking a toll on her. Most people are unwillingly thrust into this kind of role. They are not noted public speakers. Many stammer - such as Moses and Enoch; so much so, that Moses had to have an interpreter when he spoke due to his vocal chords being burned by a hot coal when he was a baby (I am guessing to keep him quiet when they hid the children during house to house searches when forced abortions by mid-wives were not enough to control the Hebrew population and they resorted to killing the toddlers). Another blog post.
Anyway, she may not be getting enough rest.
Another reason for rambling is that she sees so much before her eyes, that she cannot express it all in a cohesive manner. Even with notes, I cannot easily express myself when covering subjects of a larger scope. That presentation I gave in WJ two years ago was a classic example. There was a lot of wandering - I tend to go down many bunny trails.
She might have been on medication? She has had health problems that she has mentioned before. That is entirely possible.
Either way, I would be hesitant to throw the baby out with the bathwater. What did the Spirit witness to you? That is the most important thing. Did she violate any gospel doctrines or principles when speaking? That is the other side of that coin. Did she build faith? Or did she tear it down? Did you walk away wanting to be a better person? Or did you walk away filled with darkness and despair?
Those are the yardsticks that I measure an encounter by.
Here's Julie Rowe's take on the St. George Conference: http://julieroweprepare.com/thank-you-3/
ReplyDeleteThere definitely was a reason for the way she came across. Something wasn't right at the St. George presentation. You can clearly hear a difference between the radio interviews vs. St. George. I don't blame Julie one bit....I think something was restraining her. I'm sure she gave the message she was suppose to give...given the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteIraq, I think your comments were right on. This issue, from my perspective, is that anyone, including Satan and his followers, can quote scripture and twist it to discredit someone. James 2:19 (JST) says “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble; thou hast made thyself like unto them, not being justified.” I agree that the stupor of thought is an important aspect of discerning truth from error. However, there have been times when I have been unable to eloquently put my thoughts into words and a church talk or lesson came out as disjointed. That doesn’t diminish the truth of what was said.
ReplyDeleteA more important scale to measure truth from error was written by Moroni when he said, “For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him” (Moroni 7:16 & 17).
I certainly cannot fault anyone for interpreting Julie Rowe’s presentation as a stupor of thought. I have misinterpreted what the Holy Ghost was trying to tell me many times. I simply view these experiences as helping me learn to discern correctly and understanding that God will not always give us all the information surrounding future events. Having read both books, I have not seen anywhere where I can justifiably disbelieve what she said she experienced. The primary points of both books is the importance of having faith in Christ, keeping the commandments, and preparing for what is coming. Isn’t that what the prophets have been telling us since Joseph Smith was on the scene?
If you go to her website under updates and read what she had to say about the night, it appears there was much more going on than many may have realized. She may have very well been distracted.
ReplyDeleteI have been to see Julie, at a different place and time than this event, and I can wholeheartedly say that I benefitted greatly from it. I also know that everyone can have a different viewpoint/opinion at witnessing the same event. It can depend on one's perspective prior to "the event" as well as, one's preparation prior to it. I believe that people will be given what they expect. If you were skeptical before seeing Julie, how is the Spirit going to bear witness of anything else while in that state of mind. I am probably not going to win any brownie points with that said. But it is how I see it. Judge not the person, just the message borne. If it is true, than what else is there to be said. She is coming forth as a witness. Period.
ReplyDeleteI was at the St. George event and I can honestly say it was uplifting and a great experience.
ReplyDeleteI was led to read Julie's first book in a miraculous way, 2 weeks after it came out. I was having my own dreams and reading her book was a second witness to a few of them. I have since had my own personal confirmation more than a few times of the truth of her experience.
I had the privilege to hear her speak in Logan which is where I first met her. From there we became friends and have spoke on the phone many times. Each time I speak to her I am edified and lifted. She is a women of great faith and courage. She knew the extreme opposition and persecution was coming. We talked about it. She was prepared for it. However, it can't be easy. "Doubt not your faith, doubt your doubt" I for one am grateful for her courage and charity. I am also grateful that she didn't have note cards or an outline. She went by the spirit as it directed her. Had she prepared beforehand it probably would have changed anyway after she arrived. Many of us have had this happen, we prepare a lesson and then the spirit directs us in another direction. If you came with an open heart with "eyes to see and ears to hear" then you walked away with so much! It was uplifting, spiritual and insightful. At one point she said this was a pivotal point and one year from now things will be different. I would like to add my own experience. A month or so ago I had a dream where I was told one simple sentence "we will be called out to places of safety in 2016 and ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." This message might just be for me and my family but felt I should add my witness. What are her fruits? Their is opposition in all things but her message has brought a lot of people closer to their Heavenly Father and helped strengthen the faith of many including mine. She has opened my eyes in more ways than one. We all should be finding out what our gifts and missions are, we all have them and then use them with the spirit as our guide to be hastening the work and bringing more unto Christ. Listen to what she said about the adversary and our thoughts. Things are ramping up and the things she spoke of could help us as well as so many others through the difficult times that we are experiencing as well as the one's to come. I have experienced things she spoke of and there is so much to learn. I am grateful for a loving Heavenly Father who wants his children to be prepared and come to live with him again. I'm grateful for the faith of one humble women who loves us all enough to put herself out there. She has had a very sacred, personal experience that I'm sure was extremely overwhelming and then openly shared it with many, knowing that she would be persecuted, mocked and called crazy. However, she is doing it with Grace, faith, courage and strength because she knows it's not about her.
Julie, thank you! I pray for you daily.
She was definitely "off" at the St. George event. I know several people recorded it, and I hope someone circulates it so those who were not there can listen and understand. The audience was very large, but so respectful and quiet that you probably could have heard a pin drop most of the time. I have a hard time believing that we flustered her. I listened to the radio interview from the day before, and it sounds like a different person. She did repeat several of the things from the radio interview during the live presentation. I guess the real proof is in the pudding. Based on what happens in the next 4 years, we will know of the truthfulness of her message. In the second Mills Crenshaw interview she said they had purchased the vehicle that they drive to the tent city, and she made a point of saying they never keep a vehicle more than 5 years.
DeleteA differing opinion!
DeleteBefore Julie spoke to us, the congregation, which consisted of at least 1000 people, sang 2 hymns. There was a wonderful feeling there, very stirring. I looked up at Julie, and she was visibly moved to tears. I was there with 5 other people, two of which made the strong comment that they felt she was speaking to them...that she said specific things to them which comforted them. Julie made the comment during her talk that she felt there were people in attendance which she was speaking to. So, to me, if the other 998 of us didn't hear anything which fit our expectation of the evening, then so be it. For me, there isn't one thing she said which wasn't gospel oriented and uplifting. She paused many times, as if she were listening what to say next.
She told us that she had been shown years before, that she would be coming to speak in St. George, and that this is a very sacred place. A place where ancient people lived. A place of refuge. That many, many people from California, Nevada, and Arizona would come here to be safe. She said the people in St. George were special people. What else?...She told us that some of us in the audience were being prepared to help these people, and that we would have tents in our backyards. Millions of white tents covering this area and up to Cedar City. White tents all over southern Utah and over into Moab. She told us that we had a year. She said several times that her speech in St. George was pivotal. I don't really understand what that meant, but she stressed this point. Something about the ancient civilizations, watching us, excited for the events that are about to take place. Something about the lost tribes and scriptures being brought forward.
We all loved her talk!