THE CAVE OR CAVES IN MANTI HILL

http://thetreasuresofutah.yuku.com/topic/1176/Temple-Hill-Cave-in-Manti#.VTSMVZM3T4w

Temple Hill Cave in Manti	Lead	[-]
Posts: 112 Jul 5 08 11:54 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Does anyone know the full story about the man who dug the small cave in Temple Hill in Manti? I have only found one story on the internet found here (http://www.seltic.com.au/world_anomalies/manti.asp) that says "The tunnel was dug by a local resident who was convinced that he would soon come into a chamber left by ancients. As he dug he began to have dreams that warned him to dig no further or suffer a terrible fate. He ignored the warnings and was later found dead of a heart attack inside the tunnel amongst his tools." I checked out the cave for myself & it was a little larger than I thought it was, you can actually almost stand up in it. It goes straight & has a narrow fork to the right, both dead ends. I wonder if he really was about to find something? I didn't bring a lighter to verify, but according to John Ramses from the before mentioned link, lit a lighter at the end of the tunnel & found that there was some air flow. His theory is that the entire hill is an ancient temple. It appears that the entrance to the cave may not last much longer. Here are a few photos I took yesterday.
Digger II		#1	[-]
Posts: 4792 Jul 6 08 3:06 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nice pics....actually there are many stories.... wish I could tell the half of them..... ;-) Welcome to the forum.... Dig
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#2	[-]
Posts: 112 Jul 6 08 4:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Digger. This looks like a very interesting forum. There is a lot to discover from Utah history & I hope I can contribute some worthwhile discussions & ideas. I spoke to a few of the locals & they told me that they think that the hill is a place where Adam built a temple to do sacrifices. I did a little looking around for altars & this is what I found. Then again they could just be Indian acorn grinding holes but I really have no way of knowing. In most of them I could see small sections that were cut out like a drain. I was told that they were used to catch the excess blood from the animal sacrifices & later burned off as an offering. I also found this carving of a crescent moon. This was found below one of the potholes. I looked all over for maybe a sun or star carving but couldn't find any, neither could I find any of the hieroglyphics on the hill that I've seen pictures of. I read that Temple Hill was sacred to the Indians, & was one of the main reasons for Isaac Morley wanting to settle there as he was deeply interested in it. It's definitely a special place & there is probably a lot we don't know about it. The stories of the Brewer Cave, Noah's Ark launching place, Moroni's Spring, Eagle Mountain, etc. just add to the mystery of Sanpete Valley & I'd love to find out if there is any truth to any of these claims.
Rockhound7	Temple Hill	#3	[-]
Posts: 238 Jul 7 08 10:59 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Those are some nice pic's. Pretty country rock the cave is dug in. I do have a question for you. If the guy that dug it dreamed that he should stop, ignored the warning and continued digging, and died, who would have known about the warning? Theirs lots of stories and they have all been told several times, on occasion I suppose they get changed just a tad. Temple Hill has been talked about a lot, I believe theirs something there or very close by!
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#4	[-]
Posts: 112 Jul 11 08 11:18 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's a good point, which is why I'd like to find other sources of the story other than the one story I have. But maybe he told some one about his dream as before he decided to ignore it? I'm not sure. But I did meet a guy from Ephraim who had some very interesting pictures of things he has found in the mountains nearby. He also showed me some of the plates & other artifacts that he inherited from Johnny Brewer. The stone box they were in used to be wrapped up in some kind of tree bark that he said had been dated by a university (I forgot which one) to about 100 BC to 150 AD thereabouts. Here's a few pics that he allowed me to take. He said all of these were found in Sanpete County. I've drove down to Manti to find some of the other spots that he told me about (without being too specific) but so far I'll I've found is a bunch of petrified wood & possibly a piece of pottery. I may have more luck next time I go now that I've got a few more sources & info to go on, supposedly there is still another cave there with mummies & records that this person has been inside. He showed me a picture of what the outside looked like & the hill did seem to be man-made, but I'm no archeologist. I have found the hill in my pictures from my last trip there & I'm very excited to go back & see it up close. It will be a couple weeks probably but I'll post pictures of anything I find inside or outside the hill. If it really does turn out to be genuine I'll be sure to take nothing but pictures.
Digger II		#5	[-]
Posts: 4792 Jul 11 08 12:36 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Apparently that would be Mr. Mower...... Nice pics.
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#6	[-]
Posts: 112 Jul 11 08 3:30 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's right. He's a very good guy, but I've heard you wouldn't want to ever cross him. I believe that he believes everything he's told me. So far I believe that he has found some real artifacts & not made them himself, but his interpretations on some of the things are doctrines I've never heard anywhere else. You see I've called & spoke with Duane Erickson & he told me that how he was able to verify the locations that Jerry showed him. He was very excited to share the evidence that he had found & was about to publish a book about it, but he was warned that it might start an onslaught of treasure hunters to Manti & a lot of the locations might get looted, so they are working on finding someone with money to buy the large piece of acreage so they can protect it first.
Avantais		#7	[-]
Posts: 113 Jul 12 08 1:01 PM Arm Chair Treasure Hunter Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some of that stuff looks like it came from the Burrows cave.
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#8	[-]
Posts: 112 Jul 13 08 1:23 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Supposedly none of those items were from Burrows Cave, but Wayne May was also at this seminar & displayed his Burrows Cave artifacts among other things:
Digger II		#9	[-]
Posts: 4792 Aug 2 08 8:20 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wayne has a nice collection goin on fer sure...... Good Pics....
kanabite.ancientlosttrea...	hey D Q and digger	#10	[-]
Posts: 27 Aug 3 08 9:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have a picture of an exact duplicate to that pink thunder bird only this one is white . except the pic of the one i have was found 30 miles east of kanab by an old man about twenty years ago. i held it once seems like it was about 8 inches tip to tip , AND I MEAN LIKE MADE BY THE SAME ARTIST / Will have to find the pic and scan it in next weekend when i get home. nice pic s by the way ,...
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#11	[-]
Posts: 112 Aug 3 08 9:59 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh wow. That would be interesting to see for sure & to hear the story of where it was found. Unfortunately Jerry never explained what it was, but I will ask him next time I talk to him. Although he did say everything on that table was found in Sanpete County.
kanabite.ancientlosttrea...	thunder bird	#12	[-]
Posts: 27 Aug 8 08 11:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	sorry this pic is kind of blurry, it was taken a long time ago. i scanned it in this morning to show you guys.i held this thing once and it was like i said about 8 inches wing tip to wing tip. some guy over home put it under a microscope and it looked to be very old with no new chipping . i know where the hill is it was found but i don't know if the old guy that found it is still alive or not .
kanabite.ancientlosttrea...	on another note	#13	[-]
Posts: 27 Aug 8 08 11:19 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	i don't know jerry mower , but russel burrows did tell me about him, he said he went and and stayed with him a few years back in manti or spring city or somewhere. then burrows went on to say things about Mr. mower that i will not repeat here.burrows likes to do things like that , he gets close to people and then after they fall from his grace he likes to talk crap about them .o well . thumper's mother says if you cant say something nice then don't say anything at all. so i guess i better shut up about this..... hope you like the picture.///bob Last Edited By: kanabite Aug 9 08 8:17 AM. Edited 2 times.
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#14	[-]
Posts: 112 Aug 19 08 5:51 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here is some more info I have dug up on Temple Hill: Per Journal of Isaac Morley: (http://www.ghostradiox.co...rld_anomalies/manti.asp) not a direct source "the very hill where the Nephites had sacrificed Nehor on the sacrificial altar for the sake of the preservation of the ancient church. Here once an ancient temple stood, and here one day again would stand another in these last days...This was, even as Chief Joseph Walker (Chief Wakara) said, a sacred hill, and so I called the place Manti, even as it was called in days gone by." Per Official Manti Temple Website: (http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/manti/) "On the morning of the site dedication, Brigham Young confided to Warren S. Snow that Temple Hill was the spot where Book of Mormon Prophet Moroni dedicated the land for a temple site." Per Dedicatory Prayer by Lorenzo Snow May 21st, 1888: (http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/manti/prayer/) "We dedicate the ground and the hill on which it stands, that the same may be holy unto the Lord our God; that its steps, its terraces, its trees and shrubbery, with all its adornments and its approaches may be the pathways of the just to the House of the Lord, the Temple of our God. Let the foundation of this House be made permanent and never be moved from its place. May the stones and the cement of which the buildings is composed become compact and strong as if it were one solid rock." Per Dr. Karen? : (http://www.rumormillnews....gi/noframes/read/18176.) "Well, Morley apparently was the only white man who the Ute Indians trusted enough about certain things....and because of this 'special connection' to possible information about things that were (or may be) buried in the Sanpete region of Utah, specically on the mound that Morley called Temple Hill, in Manti. No sooner had Morley arrived with the other early Mormon settlers with B Young in 1849, than he immediately turned his attention to the mound which came to be known as Temple Hill. He was so adamant that settlement be made in proximity to that hill that he ended up actually alienating a number of the others, who preferred more convenient places to settle. But Morley, a prominent leader, would have none of it---he absolutely 'refused to compromise' and demanded that this particular hill was "our God-appointed abiding place..." But, why was this hill so important to him? Chief Walker of the Sanpete Utes had informed him that the "Old Ones" had once erected an altar on the top of the hill, and so this hill was considered sacred to the Utes. In Morley's journals, he mentions having private conversation with Chief Walker about this hill, the tunnels/caverns underneath it, and the surrounding area, but he doesnt' appear to have told anyone else about it. He also chose the location near this hill to start the city of Manti, as he made the connection here between the stone altar and a passage in the Book of Mormon (Alma 1:15) concerning the sacrifice of Nehor on the hill Manti by the Nephites in ancient America. In another journal entry, he adds: "Here once an ancient temple stood..." even though there is no such reference in the Book of Mormon itself. Chief Walker only mentioned a stone altar to him, but nothing of a temple on the premises. The big looming question here, is: Did Morley have another, secret source? And if so, what was it? Perhaps his 'private' talks with Chief Walker were a starting point, but he also made reference to 'the books' that he consulted with in trying to decipher some of the 'old carvings' on some of the stones..... He even refers to a 'second temple', which seems to imply that he knew that one, if not two, temples had once stood on or near this hill in ancient times past. From the time of his arrival in the Sanpete Valley in 1849 until he was recalled from his work in 1854, Morley was rather obsessed with searching for something, constantly, in or around Temple Hill. He was apparently quite secretive about it. After he was recalled from his work, he immediately sealed up the entrance so no one would find it again, believing that this was the Lord's wish. Prior to his death in 1865, Morley gave specific instructions to his son, Isaac Morley Jr., that his remains be brought back to Manti and interred at the foot of Temple Hill. He said that this place was a sacred place, "in proximity to the secret of the Lord". No other explanation of exactly what he meant has ever been forthcoming. He also believed that another temple in the Last Days would stand on this hill again..... Makes one wonder?...! To top off our 'wild west' saga, this was rather interesting, too: Pete Neilson, who once rode with Butch Cassidy's Wild Bunch, in his later years wrote a history of his life, an unpubl's manuscript. He became a Temple worker during the last years of his life in Utah, performing ordinances in the Manti Temple. Neilson claimed that the foundation stone which lay beneath the altar of the Temple had been excavated from a cavern which lay directly beneath, and contained ancient inscriptions which, to him, looked like anicent Greek letters. He claimed that these inscriptions could still be seen by accessing the underside of the altar by going through the Temple basement.... (Of course, this is rather hard to verify today, but certainly is intriguing) No doubt the Mormon historians (at the high level) know far more about all of this..... " Per Gospel Link: (http://gospelink.com/next/doc?book_doc_id=350916) A buff-colored stone and oolite limestone obtained from nearby quarries were used in the temple's foundation and walls. Per John Ramses: (http://www.ghostradiox.co...rld_anomalies/manti.asp) see also his link to his google map of locations on Temple Hill "On the hill east of the current Manti Temple (above the old quarry) remains traces of an ancient structure whose stones rival in the size those used in the building of Machu Picchu, Teotihuacan, or Baalbek. Inside the hill there said to be nummerous caves, and indeed, we did locate the concealed entrance of one and a small air shaft about 20 south of it. I've spent a great deal of time on this hill and hiking the surrounding region and talking with locals since I first heard about the Egyptian writing many years ago. The entire hill - prior to much of it being quarried to provide material for the current temple - appears to have been man-made or altered by man in great antiquity. In fact, I believe now that the hill is the burried remains of the actual structure complex. On the east side of the hill is a long wide straight ramp built of piled earth and stone. Atop the hill itself, mostly towards the western end, appear to be the remains of an ancient stone floor. After so many years of investigating this hill I believe the caves there to be chambers and hallways built into the original structure. While the main structure from anti-delluvian times may have formed the foundation of the current hill with some of the ancient stonework still exposed there are obvious signs that other peoples have built upon it and altered the stones in more recent times. With the quarrying for the current Temple aside, there are, of course, the the chambers whose alluvial deposit were dug out and used for burial chambers - the chambers themselves perhaps modified. There are also unique pot-holes (for lack of a better name) on the surface of the floor stones (foundation). These holes show every sign of being hollowed out by hand and the bottom smoothed. While these types of formations do occur naturally where water is in constant motion over the surface the holes on these stones - at the very least - have been modified. The most obvious modification - when one looks closely - are the 'V-shaped' channels purposely cut into the edges as if to allow some lquid to flow from one hole to the other until it spilled over the edge of the cliff. Nearly everyone of these holes have the channel cut into it. I can't begin to understand the purpose but in some ancient time - perhaps when the Aztecs still resided in Utah - they were important enough to have donated many hours to making." Last Edited By: Digger II Dec 18 10 9:04 AM. Edited 6 times.
Digger II		#15	[-]
Posts: 4792 Aug 19 08 9:10 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Good post Don Q..... I read many of these things some time ago...and if you keep looking you may find more.... there is much to be said about that place.....and much that is better left unsaid.... Keep up the good work.... Dig
Lostaslost		#16	[-]
Posts: 195 Aug 20 08 4:41 PM Weekend exporer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DonnQuijote, I have said it before, you are doing a good job. I believed this stuff you are digging out when Boren wrote it. I wonder if some are calling you a lier also. See if you can dig out anything concerning Morely being the first to visit the Carrie. So many call Boren a lier on this issue. Make believe with a big imagination. All self centered to himself. I have found this totally untrue with what I have found dealing with his information. The man knew what he was talking about. Then to maybe his information all came from Aaron Daniels and Happy Jack but he does state that. Then again people say he did not have acces to these diares. How could he see them and no one else even knows of them? You are proving a lot of stuff with your research and I for one appreciate it. Thanks Donn Lost
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#17	[-]
Posts: 112 Aug 21 08 9:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Lost. I actually went as far as attending a Manti session but I couldn't find a good way to strike up a conversation with any of the temple workers about the basement. I did, however, see some possible clues inside the temple that may or may not have been intended to hint at the idea of a temple being there. Then again, it could be my imagination. If any of the interior photos of the paintings there were made public, I'll post it here. It would be nice to find access to Morley's journal as well. My first step would be to find out who has it.
southern utah		#18	[-]
Posts: 226 Aug 25 08 5:06 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DQ, thecave you are talking about behind the temple is it the one dug under the hyroglyphs?
DonnQuijote.ancientlosttrea...		#19	[-]
Posts: 112 Aug 25 08 11:21 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It's near the symbols but not right next to it as far as I know. I could never find the symbols myself. Check this site http://www.seltic.com.au/world_anomalies/manti.asp and download his google earth file & it will show you how close they are.
southern utah		#20	[-]
Posts: 226 Aug 26 08 11:49 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have been to the site 3 or 4 times that is on the site you listed. I have some 35mm pics and sometime will get back to take some digital. On the north side of the wash where the few hyroglys mentioned in the article are there is another larger group. One one of the symbols was thought to represent a cave-tunnel. Thinking it might be below and near these glyphs the land was purchaced by on old fellow and digging begun. I was told he died of a heart attack and the digging was stopped. I think I have a few picture some where. Years ago I had a friend that was envolved with the Harmstrum group until they took his wife and gave her to someone else--------another story. He took me up to the site and I videoed him explaining a then recient incedent where they had taken on old Indian up there. The old fellow wandered off and was laterseen laying on the ground as if passed out. They went to him and found him as if a trance. When they could talk to him again he describerd the building there and it use. He described the peoplehe as extreemly tall. They were smelting ore and described the smelter. He also told of the lake that covered the valley right up to the base of the ledged. It is on 8mm video tapes but I don't have a 8mm player anymore. Need to find someone withone and borrow it. Got a few other things on same tapes I need to get on CD's and DVDs