This statement is from the former Dean of Religious Studies at BYU, Robert L. Millet. One of my favorite peeps and have previously featured his audio files on overcoming trials from the BYU Education Week. He says that the JST clarifies the matter - and then there is that previous post where Joseph Smith says that we (the people of the last generation) WILL know.
Humph - I just got a few F-bombs thrown at me within the last week from fellow member who said I was rabidly apostate and full of poo. I keep throwing this stuff out there - but people just give me a blank stare - much better than a glare and some F-bombs....LOL I have asked myself several times when it is going to get physical. Not between myself and a non-member, but me and other members. Yep - I am sad to say it; people are struggling to endure sound doctrine.
Here it is. You be the judge (the good stuff is in the first paragraph that I copied from the following link):
https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/sperry-symposium-classics-doctrine-and-covenants/16-second-coming-christ-questions-and
Does Christ Himself Know When He Will Come?Here are the two quotes that are permanently featured in the right margin on the blog. Why? Because I will put any modern apostle or theologian or bishop up against these two quotes and ask them to resolve them in light of their current or past statements:
This question comes up occasionally, perhaps because of what is stated in the Gospel of Mark: “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” (Mark 13:31–32; emphasis added). The phrase “neither the Son” is not found in Matthew or Luke. Christ knows all things; He possesses the fulness of the glory and power of the Father (see D&C 93:16–17). Surely He knows when He will return. If He did not know the exact day or time of His return in glory when the Olivet prophecy was uttered, then certainly after His Resurrection and glorification He came to know. It is worth noting that the Joseph Smith Translation of this verse omits the disputed phrase.
Will All Be Surprised and Caught Unaware?
The scriptures speak of the Master returning as “a thief in the night” (1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10). It is true that no mortal man has known, does now know, or will yet know the precise day of the Lord’s second advent. That is true for prophets and apostles as well as the rank and file of society and the Church. The Lord did not reveal to Joseph Smith the precise day and time of His coming (D&C 130:14–17). Elder M. Russell Ballard, speaking to students at Brigham Young University, recently observed: “I am called as one of the Apostles to be a special witness of Christ in these exciting, trying times, and I do not know when He is going to come again. As far as I know, none of my brethren in the Council of the Twelve or even in the First Presidency knows. And I would humbly suggest to you, my young brothers and sisters, that if we do not know, then nobody knows, no matter how compelling their arguments or how reasonable their calculations. . . . I believe when the Lord says ‘no man’ knows, it really means that no man knows. You should be extremely wary of anyone who claims to be an exception to divine decree.”[2] On the other hand, the Saints are promised that if they are in tune with the Spirit, they can know the time and the season. The Apostle Paul chose the descriptive analogy of a pregnant woman about to deliver. She may not know the exact hour or day when the birth is to take place, but one thing she knows for sure: it will be soon. It must be soon! The impressions and feelings and signs within her own body so testify. In that day, surely the Saints of the Most High, the members of the body of Christ, will be pleading for the Lord to deliver the travailing earth, to bring an end to corruption and degradation, to introduce an era of peace and righteousness. And those who give heed to the words of scripture, and especially to the living oracles, will stand as the “children of light, and the children of the day,” those who “are not of the night, nor of darkness” (1 Thessalonians 5:2–5). In a modern revelation the Savior declared: “And again, verily I say unto you, the coming of the Lord draweth nigh, and it overtaketh the world as a thief in the night—therefore, gird up your loins, that you may be the children of light, and that day shall not overtake you as a thief” (D&C 106:4–5; emphasis added).
To certain brethren who would soon be called to the first Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in this dispensation, the Lord said: “And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (D&C 68:11). As we move closer to the end of time, we would do well to live in such a manner that we can discern the signs of the times; we would be wise also to keep our eyes fixed and our ears riveted on those called to direct the destiny of this Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith pointed out that a particular man who claimed prophetic powers “has not seen the sign of the Son of Man as foretold by Jesus. Neither has any man, nor will any man, till after the sun shall have been darkened and the moon bathed in blood. For the Lord hath not shown me any such sign, and as the prophet saith, so it must be: “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.’”[3]
Is It True That Not Everyone Will Know When the Savior Has Come?
Once in a while we hear something in the classes of the Church to the effect that not all people will know when the Lord returns. Let us be clear on this matter. There may be some wisdom in speaking of the second comings of the Lord Jesus Christ, three of which are preliminary appearances, or comings, to select groups, and one of which is to the whole world. The Lord will make a preliminary appearance to His temple in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri. This seems to be a private appearance to those holding the keys of power in the earthly kingdom. Elder Orson Pratt, in speaking of this appearance, said: “All of them who are pure in heart will behold the face of the Lord and that too before he comes in his glory in the clouds of heaven, for he will suddenly come to his Temple, and he will purify the sons of Moses and of Aaron, until they shall be prepared to offer in that Temple an offering that shall be acceptable in the sight of the Lord. In doing this, he will purify not only the minds of the Priesthood in that Temple, but he will purify their bodies until they shall be quickened, renewed and strengthened, and they will be partially changed, not to immortality, but changed in part that they can be filled with the power of God, and they can stand in the presence of Jesus, and behold his face in the midst of that Temple.”[4] Charles W. Penrose observed that the Saints “will come to the Temple prepared for him, and his faithful people will behold his face, hear his voice, and gaze upon his glory. From his own lips they will receive further instructions for the development and beautifying of Zion and for the extension and sure stability of his Kingdom.”[5]
The Lord will make an appearance at Adam-ondi-Ahman, “the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit” (D&C 116). This grand council will be a large sacrament meeting, a time when the Son of Man will partake of the fruit of the vine once more with His earthly friends. And who will be in attendance? The revelations specify Moroni, Elias, John the Baptist, Elijah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Adam, Peter, James, John, “and also,” the Savior clarifies, “all those whom my Father hath given me out of the world” (D&C 27:5–14), multitudes of faithful Saints from the beginning of time to the end. This will be a private appearance in that it will be unknown to the world. It will be a leadership meeting, a time of accounting, an accounting for priesthood stewardships. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that Adam, the Ancient of Days, “will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. . . . The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him [Christ] glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.”[6]
President Joseph Fielding Smith observed: “This gathering of the children of Adam, where the thousands, and the tens of thousands are assembled in the judgment, will be one of the greatest events this troubled earth has ever seen. At this conference, or council, all who have held keys of dispensations will render a report of their stewardship. . . . We do not know how long a time this gathering will be in session, or how many sessions will be held at this grand council. It is sufficient to know that it is a gathering of the Priesthood of God from the beginning of this earth down to the present, in which reports will be made and all who have been given dispensations (talents) will declare their keys and ministry and make report of their stewardship according to the parable [the parable of the talents; Matthew 25]. Judgment will be rendered unto them for this is a gathering of the righteous. . . . It is not to be the judgment of the wicked. . . . This will precede the great day of destruction of the wicked and will be the preparation for the Millennial Reign.”[7]
Elder Bruce R. McConkie has likewise written: “Every prophet, apostle, president, bishop, elder, or church officer of whatever degree—all who have held keys shall stand before him who holds all of the keys. They will then be called upon to give an account of their stewardships and to report how and in what manner they have used their priesthood and their keys for the salvation of men within the sphere of their appointments. . . . There will be a great hierarchy of judges in that great day, of whom Adam, under Christ, will be the chief of all. Those judges will judge the righteous ones under their jurisdiction, but Christ himself, he alone, will judge the wicked.”[8]
The Savior will appear to the Jews on the Mount of Olives. It will be at the time of the battle of Armageddon, at a time when His people will find themselves with their backs against the wall. During this period, two prophets will stand before the wicked in the streets of Jerusalem and call the people to repentance. These men, presumably members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles or the First Presidency—holding the sealing powers—”are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration,” and will “prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers” (D&C 77:15; see also Revelation 11:4–6).[9] They will be put to death by their enemies, their bodies will lie in the streets for three and a half days, and they will then be resurrected before the assembled multitude (Revelation 11:7–12).
At about this time, the Savior will come to the rescue of His covenant people: “Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south” (Zechariah 14:3–4). Then shall come to pass the conversion of a nation in a day, the acceptance of the Redeemer by the Jews. “And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet? Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God. And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king” (D&C 45:51–53; see also Zechariah 12:10; 13:6).
Finally, and we would assume not far removed in time from His appearance on the Mount of Olives, is Christ’s coming in glory. He comes in glory. All shall know. “Be not deceived,” the Master warned in a modern revelation, “but continue in steadfastness, looking forth for the heavens to be shaken, and the earth to tremble and to reel to and fro as a drunken man, and for the valleys to be exalted, and for the mountains to be made low, and for the rough places to become smooth” (D&C 49:23). “Wherefore, prepare ye for the coming of the Bridegroom; go ye, go ye out to meet him. For behold, he shall stand upon the mount of Olivet, and upon the mighty ocean, even the great deep, and upon the islands of the sea, and upon the land of Zion. And he shall utter his voice out of Zion, and he shall speak from Jerusalem, and his voice shall be heard among all people; and it shall be a voice as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder, which shall break down the mountains, and the valleys shall not be found” (D&C 133:19–22; emphasis added).
But the Latter-day Saints are not in darkness; they are the children of light, although many of us will actually be asleep. We shall have to wake up and trim up our lamps, or we shall not be prepared to enter in; for we shall all slumber and sleep in that day, and some will have gone to sleep from which they will not awake until they awake up in darkness without any oil in their lamps. But, as a general thing, the Saints will understand the signs of the times. Others have their eyes closed upon the prophecies of the ancient Prophets; and not only that, but they are void of the spirit of prophecy themselves. When a man has this, though he may appeal to ancient Prophets to get understanding on some subjects he does not clearly understand, yet, as he has the spirit of prophecy in himself, he will not be in darkness; he will have a knowledge of the signs of the times; he will have a knowledge of the house of Israel, and of Zion, of the ten tribes and of many things and purposes and events that are to take place on the earth; and he will see coming events, and can say such an event will take place, and after that another, and then another; and after that the trumpet shall sound, and after that certain things will take place, and then another trump shall sound, &c., &c.; and he will have his eye fixed on the signs of the times, and that day will not overtake him unawares.
JD, O PRATT 7:190
JOSEPH SMITH SAID THOSE WHO ARE WATCHING AND WAITING, WILL KNOW THE HOUR:
"Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass; again we find Paul 1st of Thesslonians 5th Chapter expressly points out the characters who shall not know the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh for says he it will come upon them as the theif or unawares. Who are they they are the children of darkness or night. But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares. John the revelator says 14 chap 7th verse that the hour of his judgements is come they are precursers or forerunners of the comeing of Christ. read Matthew 24 Chap and all the Prophets. He says then shall they see the Sign of the comeing of the Son of Man in the clouds of Heaven. How are we to see it Ans. As the lighting up of the morning or the dawning of the morning cometh from the east and shineth unto the west—So also is the comeing of the Son of Man. The dawning of the morning makes its appearance in the east and moves along gradualy so also will the comeing of the Son of Man be. it will be small at its first appearance and gradually becomes larger untill every eye shall see it. Shall the Saints understand it Oh yes. Paul says so. Shall the wicked understand Oh no they attribute it to a natural cause. They will probably suppose it is two great comets comeing in contact with each other It will be small at first and will grow larger and larger untill it will be all in a blaze so that every eye shall see it." (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843
Seems to me that people generally agree that we probably can recognize the signs of His coming. The problem is getting them to agree with your assessment of timing, and basing timing calculations on statements like BHO being the AC. That's quite a stretch. You could be right, and things will happen soon. Or you could be wrong, and we have twenty more years of this decline into social madness before things shake up. Since the establishment of the Church, people have assumed the Second Coming was five years away...
ReplyDeleteThe man that is constantly looking and preparing has nothing to lose. But those who walk through life staring at there feet saying the cliff is a thousand miles away will most likely walk right off it. To say you may be right or wrong does not matter standing in the watchtower and being a voice of warning does matter. Think of all the Saints who have lived there lives preparing for the great wind up scene since the restoration and have died do you think they got to the other side and said damn I should have bought that new horse or that other farm or that boat for lake Powell I think not. For thousands of years before Christ people taught by example and word that a redeemer was coming and generation after generation died but those who had hope he was coming lost nothing and that hope was past on Samuel went to the nephites and told them the time was at hand and they should repent he came as a babe a short time later and a few years after that came to America and most did not prepare and were left wanting or dead. It is easier to doubt then believe but only 1 has a sweet reward. The end time is closer then ever we must prepare temporally and spiritually if we do and it is in 5 days or 50 years we will pass this life better then those who put off there day of salvation. May we all realize that are only hope is in Christ and no man on this earth regardless of calling can save us. Bring on the meat
ReplyDelete