THIS BLOG ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HOW SCIENCE IS CATCHING UP WITH REVEALED RELIGION

THIS BLOG IS AN ATTEMPT TO PUT ALL THE COOL STUFF THAT I BUMP INTO ABOUT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST AND EVENTS THAT LEAD UP TO IT INTO ONE LOCATION.
THE CONTENTS WILL BE FROM AN LDS PERSPECTIVE. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING IN HERE, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY CARE TO ARGUE, UNLESS YOU CAN ADD TO THIS BODY OF WORK. I HAVE AN OPEN MIND, THAT IS WHY I READ STUFF FROM ALL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND SEEK LEARNING FROM THE BEST BOOKS. I JUST AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT IT - BUT TO PUT IT OUT THERE WHERE OTHERS CAN PERUSE/PURSUE IT. I TAKE PARTICULAR INTEREST IN HONEST SEEKERS OF TRUTH AND BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE IS REVEALED RELIGION'S BEST ALLY. YOU WILL SEE ALOT OF TOPICS IN THIS BLOG THAT SHOW SCIENCE BACKING - AND SLOWLY CATCHING UP WITH - REVEALED RELIGION.
ENJOY!!

Sunday, January 30, 2022

FOLLOW-ON TO THE DoC MOVEMENT - DOCTRINAL INCONSISTENCIES

So, there is a gal (a troll) in the group seeking to pick off doubtful members of the Church with some very illogical feelings.  I will list what the belief is and why it makes no sense.

Again, I will state here that I can absolutely see why people are hacked off with what is going on in the institution.  The whole 'comply with the ridiculous gubmint policies at any cost' is unconscionable.  For reference, look to the Canadian convoy thing where they demanded that truckers wear masks in their rigs while driving solo....  Well, Justine Castro - that did not turn out too well....  Your stupid policies created a ground swell that even CNN has not been able to cover up.  It is too rich!

The best people I happen to associate with are all hacked off.  Those that are not, are somewhat mediocre in my opinion.  Meaning, they just let people roll right over them.  Many of the blue-haired ladies we saw at the local trucker rally yesterday were not interested in the fight because they were just about ready to check out - so it was none of their business to fight it.  Not realizing, I guess, that their gubmint has deemed them useless eaters at that point and they will be among the first to go in the supposed "Great Reset".  Something happened to the post-war generation and I cannot quite put my finger on it....  Reports out of Arizona are always trickling in of how rude many of that generation can be (I know, many in every generation including "the ME Generation"....).  Either way, I have observed the sense of entitlement with my own experiences.  The sense of "you owe me" is strong in that demographic....

But I digresse.  I have dealt (unsuccessfully) with a DoC person all week and have given up on them.  Here is where they have broken down logically....:

  • Their belief that there is no clear chain of authority after Joseph Smith - that the only authority may lie in the Aaronic Priesthood, or the ability to baptize.  So, they have thrown out the ordinance work performed in countless ways for those who are dead, by way of the higher Priesthood.  I believe the count is pushing towards 2 billions of people who have had proxy work done for them.  The fact that they still accept the New Testament including Paul's rhetorical question (probably asking people of the same weak doctrinal stance, as these folks), why then are the dead baptized if the dead rise not at all?!?.  You either need to throw it all out, or you need to admit that you have not thought this thing thoroughly through.  You cannot have it both ways.  It is stuff like this that makes my head explode as an engineer.  I really cannot take illogical or irrational thought patterns from people.  It was this kind of thinking that contributed to my move to Cardston.  We were living in Kalispell and I was supposed to be doing a rent to buy from my MIL on a beautiful place there.  Huge house, great acreage.  After the first year was over, I was out on the back deck looking at the possiblity of plumbing in natural gas for a bbq we had there.  In the process of doing so, after dark I noticed a massive gap in the trim where a bay window had been installed.  It was about three feet long and a half inch wide.  It explained why we could never heat the living room in that area when we had a frigid west wind blowing and I was paying the mounting heating bill in the poorly insulated place with the 1970's, 2x4 walls, etc.  I mentioned it to my MIL, but because she is very contrarian in most anything, she refused to allow me to make the update by stuffing some insulation in the hole and putting a piece of trim over the gap to seal things up.  That was one of the final straws of that situation - and I tapped out.  You cannot deal with irrational and illogical people.  If heaven is filled with them and the politicians, I will tap out and head to hell or wherever the engineers and straight thinkers have all ended up....
  • The DoC folks do not believe in the efficacy of sealings.  Of anyone - let alone plural sealings that occurred after 1844.  So, the problem is they will have to explain away what was meant by the last statement in the OT by Malachi in that the hearts of the fathers will have to be turned to the children etc.  This is done by genealogical work.  Prior to 1836, there were ZERO genealogical societies on the face of the earth.  Just people fastidiously keeping records of the dead and marriages, etc.  Suddenly, this movement burst upon the scene and it is going with a vengeance.  How can it be explained away?  Likely due to this Spirit of Elijah that was given via the Kirtland Temple experience.  But they deny that....  So sad.  It is this doctrine that anchors me in the Gospel.  Joseph taught that this was purpose of the Millennium!  That we will not sit around strumming on harps and being bored out of our brains, until the thousand years is over; no thanks!!  Joseph taught that the entire human family will be welded together into one massive chain and the Great Jehovah will finally be able to declare the work complete.  This is the God I know!  One who will save His entire family (that desire to be saved, as no man will be forced to heaven, especially if it is devoid of logical souls.....).
  • The DoC have chosen to focus on the "one God" theory that most of Christianity has adopted.  They have their reasoning - because there is some ambiguity in some of the writings - and I have this to say about it.  Joseph spoke on several different occasions about the First Vision.  In some, he spoke of two beings of light.  In others, just mentioned Christ or God the Father.  So, there is some confusion.  To that I say that I must be a liar of epic proportions, because I always change my story or omit facts, depending on my audience.  For example, when talking about my family size, I never mention the kid we lost to SIDS if the audience is a young family with babies.  I would never want them to stay up worrying about whether they will have to go through a similar thing.  It would be cruel and unusual...  When preaching or writing to an audience that includes victorian or mixed company, mentioning a plurality of Gods would not necessarily be a wise choice.  When talking to the Saints who can supposedly handle stronger doctrines, it would be perfectly natural.  So, these arguments are tenuous at best.  Eventually, they will lead to loss of belief in Joseph and then eventually, similar weak arguments could be used to deconstruct the belief in a Savior.  The slope is quite slippery.  I really love the phrase, "Doubt your doubts!".  Most people who have gone down the slippery slope eventually end up coming out of the fog they were in and end up coming back to where they were at before their descent into the abyss.  I have found a similar thing with divorcees.  They are often no happier with anyone else than they were with an imperfect person while in the first marriage.  This has kept me in my game at many junctures.  And I am pretty sure my wife, as well.  Much of what I have observed in matters of marriage and religion is that people will hastily declare a divorce at a tight pinch or a crisis, and then, once unhinged will look around them as they are floating on a sea of uncertainty, that they were better off in the crowded and smelly steerage of the ship they were on, than floating solo amongst the sharks, etc.  Some instances do warrant a change, please do not get me wrong - but I would venture to bet that sticking with what works is the best course of action, no matter how the impulse to run may grip you.  I have learned this living with my good spouse of 29 years (who was also diagnosed as bi-polar 17 years ago after stress of losing our third child and post-partum with our 5th sent her into a tail spin).  The fact is, few people have the wherewithal to stick it out through the good and the bad.  My wife is through her worst and is now a faithful and devoted companion because she got this (mostly) from me.  She had her turn to see me through my health event and she was a trooper!  Without going through these events and learning to work things out in a constructive way, we fail to learn the best lessons in life.  We truly live in a throw-away culture.  In terms of divorce, most just end up with someone else's "throw-away" and the cycle either repeats itself, or the two get to enjoy the learning that was only gained in the prior marriages, at the expense of each of the respective spouses.  They rarely get to the see the traumatic events that shaped their now-spouses as they struggled through the first marriage.  I had the pleasure of driving across Canada this summer with a divorced woman (long story) and hearing it all.  I could not help but think what he had to go through and what she had to go through.  Something that their next spouses will not have to experience.  

To wrap this all up, we all struggle to imperfection and are classic jumpers.  We jump before we think about long-term effects.  For example, the belief that Christ said that no man can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven unless they are baptized.  Sooooo......is God going to damn all those children whose lot it was to be outside of the reach of an authorized servant to receive the baptism?  The kid who died in his infancy from SIDS etc who never made it to an age of accountability or even to the local parish to get sprinkled; is he going to rot in hell?!?  The idea is repulsive to me.  Anyone who espouses it when there is a saving doctrine and saving ordinances available to them, are repulsive to me.  The thinking truly makes Reason stare!

I could go on for hours - but these are the big hitters.  I hope to have some effect on someone who is making the illogical assumptions.  There must be a way to bring them around so they can avoid the mental fog and heartache that is coming their way. 

2 comments:

  1. Well, that was quite a rant. Maybe not entirely logical...?

    So maybe we should look at the scripture to help us understand what's going on.

    D&C 124 is where the action is at, in particular vvs 28-55.

    The Lord commands the Saints in Nauvoo to build a temple with all their might. In the interim, baptisms for the dead would be accepted, but for only a limited period of time. If they fail, their baptisms would not be accepted (vvs. 33-35).

    So the question is, was the temple finished as per the Lord's command? Brigham Young would say so, they did a hurry job after Joseph's death. But it doesn't matter what Brigham thinks, it matters what the Lord thinks.

    In vvs 44-45 the Lord says very specifically if the job gets done acceptably, He promises the Saints would never be moved from their spot (Nauvoo). Did that happen? No, they were definitely moved. Also, the Lord promised he would reveal through Joseph powerful things (vvs 41-42). Hard to do that when Joseph is no longer around, so there's another fail.

    In vvs. 49-53 the Lord does allow partial credit, which seems the best we can hope for.

    Brigham claims he and the apostles had all the keys and priesthood to run the church. In v.55 it indicates the Lord planned to provide the blessings and keys for eternal life. So it clearly did not happen. Important things are missing the Lord intended to give the Saints if they completed the work, which they did not.

    For transparency, I was baptized by followers of Snuffer, but I was not part of the covenant. I don't believe he is TOMaS servant as many of his followers believe. I think he started good but went off the rails years ago.

    Interestingly, in one of his books - Passing the Heavenly Gift I believe - he relates an experience of having been visited by a couple of his ancestors who received robes of priesthood after he performed the temple ordinances on their behalf. So by Snuffer's own experience, at least some of the work for the dead is validated.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Just saying... When I was set apart as a temple worker at the Oquirrh Mountain Utah Temple just after the dedication, I felt a mantle being placed on my shoulders. About a year later while working in the baptistry the "presence of the Lord" entered the baptistry from above. Indicating that someone He loves dearly was baptized. The "presence" lasted for hours and hours and as I left the building that night it was still there. Pres. Christensen was seen in the baptistry still as I left as he enjoyed the presence. My own experience indicates that at least baptism for the dead is functional in the Temples.

    ReplyDelete