I have been seriously scratching my head when reading the news lately - and it will lead to premature greying and balding where I have been scratching.
Things have been just weird in regards to all this Israel news and I cannot put my finger on it..... The last time I felt this way was last spring when old skull and boner Kerry headed up a trip over there on 3/22 with bummer to officially start the 3.5 years of war - and then did his very best to stir things up in Syria (yep, mr. Vietnam protester himself - WHAT A HYPOCRITICAL CHUMP!!!!!!!!!!) - and failed like the loser that he and his posse is!
I feel that this is some kind of power play for Temple Mount - so that this building can be rebuilt by the a/C and their posse, Herod-style. If you have not made the connection, we are the Roman Empire today and Israel is one of our vassal states. Herod was a title (thus the two Herods in Jesus' day - the baby-killer who died D&C 29-style and the other one). Instead of the 9th of Av being a bad day for the Jews this time around, it will be a positive day for the Jews, since they are no longer in dispersion mode and in one of being gathered and of rebuilding after enjoying a mere 2500 years of schooling at Hard Knock U. Which reminds me, I need to look up the dates of the destruction of the Nauvoo Temple and of the desecration of the Kirtland, OH temple. God is not a happy camper when his children get into rebellion mode and throw His counsels out and trample on them and either kill their prophets, or allow them to be killed by not rallying around them. Being driven out of paradise and into the wilderness can be a hard thing to bear - and the road of return to His presence is a hard journey to travel. One of perfecting. One of sorrow. One of slow redemption that otherwise might have been avoided, had higher choices been made and judgments and haughty words against the anointed ones not been made. Thus my concern for many on LDSFF and for Snuffer and others.
So I look with interest on Aug 14th, 2016 and the 9th of Av of previous years. I think something is afoot - and we ought to keep our eyes peeled:
A Historical Overview
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The 9th of Av, Tisha b'Av, commemorates a list of catastrophes so severe it's clearly a day specially cursed by G‑d.
Picture this: The year is 1313 BCE. The Israelites are in the desert, recently having experienced the miraculous Exodus, and are now poised to enter the Promised Land. But first they dispatch a reconnaissance mission to assist in formulating a prudent battle strategy. The spies return on the eighth day of Av and report that the land is unconquerable. That night, the 9th of Av, the people cry. They insist that they'd rather go backThe Jews were shocked to realize that their Second Temple was destroyed the same day as the first to Egypt than be slaughtered by the Canaanites. G‑d is highly displeased by this public demonstration of distrust in His power, and consequently that generation of Israelites never enters the Holy Land. Only their children have that privilege, after wandering in the desert for another 38 years.
The First Temple was also destroyed on the 9th of Av (423 BCE). Five centuries later (in 69 CE), as the Romans drew closer to the Second Temple, ready to torch it, the Jews were shocked to realize that their Second Temple was destroyed the same day as the first.
When the Jews rebelled against Roman rule, they believed that their leader, Simon bar Kochba, would fulfill their messianic longings. But their hopes were cruelly dashed in 133 CE as the Jewish rebels were brutally butchered in the final battle at Betar. The date of the massacre? Of course—the 9th of Av!
One year after their conquest of Betar, the Romans plowed over the Temple Mount, our nation's holiest site.
The Jews were expelled from England in 1290 CE on, you guessed it, Tisha b'Av. In 1492, the Golden Age of Spain came to a close when Queen Isabella and her husband Ferdinand ordered that the Jews be banished from the land. The edict of expulsion was signed on March 31, 1492, and the Jews were given exactly four months to put their affairs in order and leave the country. The Hebrew date on which no Jew was allowed any longer to remain in the land where he had enjoyed welcome and prosperity? Oh, by now you know it—the 9th of Av.
The Jews were expelled from England in 1290 CE on, you guessed it, Tisha b'AvReady for just one more? World War II and the Holocaust, historians conclude, was actually the long drawn-out conclusion of World War I that began in 1914. And yes, amazingly enough, Germany declared war on Russia, effectively catapulting the First World War into motion, on the 9th of Av, Tisha b'Av.
What do you make of all this? Jews see this as another confirmation of the deeply held conviction that history isn't haphazard; events – even terrible ones – are part of a Divine plan and have spiritual meaning. The message of time is that everything has a rational purpose, even though we don't understand it.
Picture this: The year is 1313 BCE. The Israelites are in the desert, recently having experienced the miraculous Exodus, and are now poised to enter the Promised Land. But first they dispatch a reconnaissance mission to assist in formulating a prudent battle strategy. The spies return on the eighth day of Av and report that the land is unconquerable. That night, the 9th of Av, the people cry. They insist that they'd rather go backThe Jews were shocked to realize that their Second Temple was destroyed the same day as the first to Egypt than be slaughtered by the Canaanites. G‑d is highly displeased by this public demonstration of distrust in His power, and consequently that generation of Israelites never enters the Holy Land. Only their children have that privilege, after wandering in the desert for another 38 years.
The First Temple was also destroyed on the 9th of Av (423 BCE). Five centuries later (in 69 CE), as the Romans drew closer to the Second Temple, ready to torch it, the Jews were shocked to realize that their Second Temple was destroyed the same day as the first.
When the Jews rebelled against Roman rule, they believed that their leader, Simon bar Kochba, would fulfill their messianic longings. But their hopes were cruelly dashed in 133 CE as the Jewish rebels were brutally butchered in the final battle at Betar. The date of the massacre? Of course—the 9th of Av!
One year after their conquest of Betar, the Romans plowed over the Temple Mount, our nation's holiest site.
The Jews were expelled from England in 1290 CE on, you guessed it, Tisha b'Av. In 1492, the Golden Age of Spain came to a close when Queen Isabella and her husband Ferdinand ordered that the Jews be banished from the land. The edict of expulsion was signed on March 31, 1492, and the Jews were given exactly four months to put their affairs in order and leave the country. The Hebrew date on which no Jew was allowed any longer to remain in the land where he had enjoyed welcome and prosperity? Oh, by now you know it—the 9th of Av.
The Jews were expelled from England in 1290 CE on, you guessed it, Tisha b'AvReady for just one more? World War II and the Holocaust, historians conclude, was actually the long drawn-out conclusion of World War I that began in 1914. And yes, amazingly enough, Germany declared war on Russia, effectively catapulting the First World War into motion, on the 9th of Av, Tisha b'Av.
What do you make of all this? Jews see this as another confirmation of the deeply held conviction that history isn't haphazard; events – even terrible ones – are part of a Divine plan and have spiritual meaning. The message of time is that everything has a rational purpose, even though we don't understand it.
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Discussion (50)
August 4, 2013
Very accurate - the Jew is the proof to the world that G-d exists, and rules over the events of history.
Heimie Steiner
July 16, 2013
Strength of G-d. A Global Event
A global event dedicated to the strength
of G-d occurs every Shabbat ,every Jewish holiday and every day . Just
pick up a Jewish prayer book and you will see we praise the strength of
G-d 3times a day, on a global level, as we are a nation spread all over
the world.
Anonymous
Sharon, Ma
shaloh.org
Sharon, Ma
shaloh.org
July 16, 2013
expulsion Gush Katif 2005
Let's not forget that over eight hundred
families were expelled from Gush Katif, on day after the Ninth of Av
2005. It was originally was planned for the Ninth of Av but was
postponed for the day after. I am a former resident of Gush Katif.
Alan B
Beit Shemesh
Beit Shemesh
July 15, 2013
9-11-2001
The month of av is the 11th month on the Jewish calendar, plus the date of tisha b'av is 9 you get 9-11-2001. Coincidence?
Matthew S
July 15, 2013
9 av
My big brother died on the 9 of av 5 years ago. He was 82
We were a family of 7. We are now 6 but we keep together. And remember Where we came from...... A strong Jewish family
We were a family of 7. We are now 6 but we keep together. And remember Where we came from...... A strong Jewish family
Vicky Koblenz
Bellaire, Tx77402
chabadoutreach.org
Bellaire, Tx77402
chabadoutreach.org
July 15, 2013
Words and their Meaning
"Slaughter" is done to animals. Humans are
"killed" or "murdered". To use the term "butcher" to refer to humans,
also is deeply disrespectful.
The Nazis, may their name be erased, on Tisha B'Av 1942, began to transport Jews from Warsaw's ghetto to the murder facility at Treblinka. By Yom Kippur, 1942, over 250,000 Jews had been sent from Warsaw to Treblinka and murdered at Treblinka.
The Nazis, may their name be erased, on Tisha B'Av 1942, began to transport Jews from Warsaw's ghetto to the murder facility at Treblinka. By Yom Kippur, 1942, over 250,000 Jews had been sent from Warsaw to Treblinka and murdered at Treblinka.
Jay E. Simkin
Nashua, NH, USA
chabadoflexington.com
Nashua, NH, USA
chabadoflexington.com
June 16, 2013
The Ninth Of Av
Isn't Hashem, blessed be He, trying to
tell us something? Maybe because we keep on sinning? And this is a
reminder that as long as you keep on doing exactly the same thing
(sins), a reminder of what has happened over the centuries will continue
to happen unless we change our ways? Isn't it about time that we turn
on the right way through the instructions of the Holy Torah? Ten
Commandments! Especially the first one: To love your G-d with all your
heart and soul. And Love One another as ourselves? When are we humans
going to accept the fact that we are ALL the family of G-d? When are we
going to Honor our Parents? Treat them with the love and consideration
they deserve? When are we going to take responsibility for our
"mistakes," or "failures," and try to correct them by doing the right
thing commanded by G-d? Why don't we ask G-d to teach us to love the way
HE LOVES us all? And start applying it? Lets try it once more. Maybe
next 9th of Av will be an Exodus from our exile.
Anonymous
USA
USA
April 27, 2013
9 Av
Lest we forget, they started the mass
gassing and the ovens at Treblinka on this day. Did the Nazis do this on
purpose? We'll never know!
Anonymous
Richmond
Richmond
July 29, 2012
Not hate
To Monsey: Not hating our enemies is not
easy. Not hating our ex-inlaws is doable. Not hating our ex-spouses, why
ask the impossible? The Buddhists have a practice for this. A person
pretends that she or he breathes in black smoke from someone with
trouble and breathes out white mist to help that person. Eventually the
other person gets better. Can Jews do this sort of thing?
Steven
New York, New York
New York, New York
July 28, 2012
Av 9
Re:
Posted By Sharon Lockwood, Tucson, AZ
"Coincidence is G-d's way of remaining anonymous." - Albert Einstein
"What you have to decide is what
kind of person you are? Are you
the type who believes in miracles
and looks for signs or are you the
kind who believes, things just
happen by chance?" - "Signs"
Have an easy fast everyone. Though this day commenorates tragic events, our suffering only lasts a day and a night. For many, their suffering lasted the rest of their lives. If you would honor their memories, enduring a little discomfort mental and physical is the way to go. As our forefathers once said, "Next year in Jerusalem." Something I find myself thinking inwardly, "Some day in Jerusalem..." The Moshiach will come.
Posted By Sharon Lockwood, Tucson, AZ
"Coincidence is G-d's way of remaining anonymous." - Albert Einstein
"What you have to decide is what
kind of person you are? Are you
the type who believes in miracles
and looks for signs or are you the
kind who believes, things just
happen by chance?" - "Signs"
Have an easy fast everyone. Though this day commenorates tragic events, our suffering only lasts a day and a night. For many, their suffering lasted the rest of their lives. If you would honor their memories, enduring a little discomfort mental and physical is the way to go. As our forefathers once said, "Next year in Jerusalem." Something I find myself thinking inwardly, "Some day in Jerusalem..." The Moshiach will come.
Jeff G.
Springfield, Mo/USA
Springfield, Mo/USA
July 28, 2012
the 9th of av
Those that fail to remember the past
are doomed to repeat it. Let's not forget the eleven that were killed at
the olympics! Shabbat shalom!!! Amen!
J
los lunas, nm
los lunas, nm
July 28, 2012
9th Av
Destruction will always happen on Tisha
B'Av as long as Man responds more to their 'subjective fears' instead
of their 'objective destiny' as commanded by God! God said enter the
promised land and overcome it, man said let us send spies to get a
strategy instead of believing God. Subjective fears based on 'sight'
came in and we were littlle in our own eyes. The rest is history. Moses
arrival from the mountain was 'mis-timed by just 6hours and the keys
(Ten Commandment) to victorious living was smashed when he met the
molten calf in the camp! Each time on 9th of Av when man should get a
higher walk with God relying on Him alone we rely on self (secular
humanism) or strength of man and we miss it! No wonder 2012 Olympics is
all about "Human Strength"! And it was started on 9th of Av. Can someone
out there tell me of the existence of a global event in the class of
Olympic dedicated to the celebration of the strength of God?
Issachar Oluyemi
Lagos, Nigeria
Lagos, Nigeria
July 27, 2012
9 av
My great grandparents were Jewish,
sadly I know little about it. They escaped the Holocaust and never spoke
of anything. The most I know about things are some recipes and words
and that they were orthodox.
this site is informative.
this site is informative.
Guidance
July 25, 2012
Gaining Understanding
I have enjoyed this very much and
appreciate the teaching. No I am not Jewish but I love the Jewish
People and have a difficult time understanding why the world hates
these People so much! Is it jealousy because G-d has claimed these
People and not them? I much prefer to get to know and Understand you
better. May He Be Merciful to You All. I am watching and praying for You
All. Eula Bunting
Eula Irene Bunting
RFD, IL/ USA
RFD, IL/ USA
July 23, 2012
9th of Av
I wonder how different it would have
been if the people of Israel had trusted the instruction G-d gave to
Moses to cross over to the promised land...rather than believe the bad
report of the spies sent to evaluate the land..Curses are real and these
events taking place on the same day...cannot be shrugged off..Fasting
is humbling ourselves with repentance for our unbelief..before G-d. We
are no different in nature than those fearful spies...
Terry
Alamo, Ca.
Alamo, Ca.
July 16, 2012
RE: Tisha b'Av makes us stronger
In response to the following comment by Nicole of Glen Rock:
"Only the strong can find a way to persevere after constant repression and abuse. It's what has made us God's Children. "
You are right but the wrong way around. It's is not our strength that has made us G-d's children but it is being chosen as His children that makes us strong. He is our strength that has brought us through constant repression and abuse.
"I love thee, O HaShem, my strength.
HaShem is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my G-d, my rock, in Him I take refuge; my shield, and my horn of salvation, my high tower. " Tehilim 18
"Only the strong can find a way to persevere after constant repression and abuse. It's what has made us God's Children. "
You are right but the wrong way around. It's is not our strength that has made us G-d's children but it is being chosen as His children that makes us strong. He is our strength that has brought us through constant repression and abuse.
"I love thee, O HaShem, my strength.
HaShem is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my G-d, my rock, in Him I take refuge; my shield, and my horn of salvation, my high tower. " Tehilim 18
Paul
New York , Ny
New York , Ny
July 11, 2012
Olympic games 2012 on 9th AV
Interesting to notice that this year's Olympics start on the 9th of AV. Lord have mercy on us all.
Anonymous
Chicago
Chicago
August 9, 2011
9 AV
WOW! Being new to Judiasm I am
flabbergasted at the coincidence, but since I don't believe in
coincidences and never really did anyway, it's jaw-dropping news to me.
Clearly we are being sent some sort of powerful message . . .let us be
poised with spiritual wonder and keep the mystery and awe of this
beautiful religion alive in our lives each day.
Sharon Lockwood
Tucson, AZ
Tucson, AZ
August 9, 2011
Take heart! 9th of Av redeemed.
In the days to come Jacob
will take root,
Israel will blossom and sprout;
And they will fill the whole world with fruit.
Isaiah 27:6
will take root,
Israel will blossom and sprout;
And they will fill the whole world with fruit.
Isaiah 27:6
Johannes Ruben
Eagle, Idaho/USA
jewishidaho.com
Eagle, Idaho/USA
jewishidaho.com
August 8, 2011
SIn'at Hinam
As mentioned numerous times the major cause of the destruction is the baseless hatred among Jews.
Unfortunately we still have a lot to work on that matter today.
Let us start right here - in our own homes- let us respect our spouses , our children- let us remove all hatred we have from towards our ex-spouses, ex-inlaws etc.. the list is long but we all know who we haet- If we can transofrm this hatred into understanding and forgiveness - maybe Hashem will forgive our sins and send us Mashiach immediately
Unfortunately we still have a lot to work on that matter today.
Let us start right here - in our own homes- let us respect our spouses , our children- let us remove all hatred we have from towards our ex-spouses, ex-inlaws etc.. the list is long but we all know who we haet- If we can transofrm this hatred into understanding and forgiveness - maybe Hashem will forgive our sins and send us Mashiach immediately
Anonymous
MOnsey, NY/US
MOnsey, NY/US
August 8, 2011
The Opposite to Blessed
Dear What Evah, I believe it is G-d's
Word for the opposite to bless - and definitely the source of light is
grieved by us turning towards Mt Ebal with our backs to the blessings of
Mt Gerizim (HaDvarim 'Deuteronomy' 27). Have a read of chapter 30. Then
Isaiah 59, 60, 61, 62. The consolation is being worked out, though
tears are still being shed. This consolation is so great it will swallow
up all sorrow for ever. "Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall
thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light,
and the days of thy mourning shall be ended."
Sarah
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
August 4, 2011
To Valerie.
Valerie,
Lunar and solar calendars "come together" every 19 years.
You 57-th B-day is 4-th time in your life when your Solar (Secular) B-Day Date and Lunar (Jewish) B-Day Date are on the same day.
This means that your Jewish Birthday is on Tisha b'Av.
Lunar and solar calendars "come together" every 19 years.
You 57-th B-day is 4-th time in your life when your Solar (Secular) B-Day Date and Lunar (Jewish) B-Day Date are on the same day.
This means that your Jewish Birthday is on Tisha b'Av.
Yisroel
Buffalo, NY
Buffalo, NY
July 31, 2011
My grandmother's passing
My beloved grandmother, of blessed
memory, passed away on Tisha B'Av, 1976, though I did not realize it at
the time. because I was not aware of my Hebrew roots until much later in
my life.
Michele
Bevaerton, USA
Bevaerton, USA
July 28, 2011
Re: 9 Av
We fast because of the destruction of
the first and second Temples both of which occurred on the 9th of Av. As
well as numerous calamities which befell the Jewish nation on this day.
The episode with the zealots occurred during the destruction of the second Temple, the fact that if not for the zealots this calamity may have been avoided only adds to the tragedy.
The episode with the zealots occurred during the destruction of the second Temple, the fact that if not for the zealots this calamity may have been avoided only adds to the tragedy.
Yehuda Shurpin for Chabad.org
July 28, 2011
9 Av
Why should we fast because a bunch of
Zealots did not want to give the peace makers a chance before armed
resistance. The real hero is Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai who in 68-69 CE
risked his life in order to ensure the continuation of Jewish
scholarship. Perhaps if they negotiated first and then held off the
Romans for years, the other events on 9 Av would never have occurred.
The Zealots fought the Sicarii and destroyed the supplies that would
have let the Jews survive for up to 21 years. Negotiation before armed
resistance is preferable as long as you have control of the high ground
(Jerusalem -walled city).
Perhaps the fast should be in remembrance of the Rabbi and the Sicarii, not for the Zealots.
Perhaps the fast should be in remembrance of the Rabbi and the Sicarii, not for the Zealots.
Robert Berkovits
Eastport, Md
Eastport, Md
July 21, 2011
ninth of Av
This week's Haf-Torah portion [
Jeremiah 1:1 - 2:3 ] happens in the month of Av, and I'll bet that the
day Jerusalem was captured was on the 9th. But even in that I can see
G-d's mercy on us, telling us to repent and return to our first love. He
is angry with His children for only a little while. When we are in His
will, nothing can harm us.
John Davis
Lithia, Florida
Lithia, Florida
June 5, 2011
Making Tisha B'Av a blessing!
The catastrophes which befell on our
brother Jews falling on the date of Tisha B'Av should be considered a
blessing for the new generation of Israel.
The creation of the Israeli nation, the failure of its neighbours to annihliate it, and the unexplainable triumphs in numerous wars our brother Jews have experienced are really tremendous miracles of the G-d of Jacob.
The creation of the Israeli nation, the failure of its neighbours to annihliate it, and the unexplainable triumphs in numerous wars our brother Jews have experienced are really tremendous miracles of the G-d of Jacob.
Allan L. Mas
Quezon City, Philippines
Quezon City, Philippines
June 2, 2011
9th of Av
Interestingly enough my 57th birthday
falls on the9th of Av this year... trusting for. NO disaster s this
year...but knowing works all things for good...
valerie
July 22, 2010
Rabbi Akiva's students
Rabbi Akiva's 24,000 students passed
away during the Omer mourning period between Passover and Shavuot. You
can read more about that here.
Chani Benjaminson, chabad.org
July 21, 2010
wasn't the bombing of the amia in argentina during tisha be-av?
Anonymous
chabadtmr.com
chabadtmr.com
July 20, 2010
Re-Tisha b'Av
I join our brother Jews in the
commemoration of the Tisha b'Av. It is fitting to observe this day, and
make this as a remebrance of the lasting desire of our brother Jews for
peace.
Shalom, Yisrael!
Shalom, Yisrael!
Allan Labrador mas
Quezon City, Philippines
Quezon City, Philippines
July 20, 2010
Rabbi Akiva
Didn't all of Rabbi Akiva's, 30,000+ disiciples die on this date also??
Charles H Gardner
Battle Creek, MI
Battle Creek, MI
July 20, 2010
Tisha b'Av makes us stronger
Only the strong can find a way to persevere after constant repression and abuse. It's what has made us God's Children.
Nicole
Glen Rock, PA
Glen Rock, PA
July 20, 2010
9 Av
Tisha B'Av was not commemorated in my
home when I was a child in the 1950s. In fact, I was 12 or 13 when I
became aware of it. However, every year around this time I felt an
unbearable sadness, a desperate sense of isolation. I still feel it.
Whatever it is, whatever it was, there's an undeniable energy in the
Cosmos.
Ilene Stackel
Naples, FL
Naples, FL
July 20, 2010
Tisha B'Av
you also forgot that the korban tamid (the perpetual daily offering) was officially not allowed as of the ninth of av
Anonymous
Brooklyn, NY/USA
Brooklyn, NY/USA
July 20, 2010
you forgot the expulsion of Jews from Gush Katif
On August 13 2005, Gush Katif (the bloc
of 17 Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip) was closed off, as the
onset of the forcible evacuation of those communities.
Eli
Jerusalem, ISRAEL
Jerusalem, ISRAEL
July 20, 2010
Holocaust
The Auschwitz death march also took place on the 9th of Av.... For the story, see www.aish.com/ho/p/51469537.html
Anonymous
Brooklyn
Brooklyn
July 19, 2010
Tisha b'Av
Historically, we Jews have little to
celebrate. Happiness and joy seem to be omitted in the Jewish culture.
Everything we have acheived is a result of "disproportionate "suffering
and misery.. The coming of Moschiach is the hope and trust that keeps
Jews from drowning in sorrow and despair.
Anonymous
Richmond Hill, Canada
chabadrc.org
Richmond Hill, Canada
chabadrc.org
July 19, 2010
date of Tisha b'Av
Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin kindly taught me
that the date given (423 BCE) is correct (rather then the date of 586
BCE given in many texts including those by Jewish authors) according to
the reckoning of Seder Olam Rabba. Yehuda (which is much more accurate
than the reckoning of western historians). Thankyou-I am still
learning.
Prof. Ross Barnard
July 19, 2010
WWI &WWII
Historically, it is accurate. The end
of WWI left open wounds, resentments, and loose ends, which WWII took
care of. They really are one war with different players.
Rachel
Los Angeles
Los Angeles
December 26, 2009
July 25, 1939 / 9th of Av 5699
A little more closely related to the
Holocaust - Hitler's 1st euthanasia victim was killed on the 9th of Av
5699 - a 5 month old child named Gerhard Herbert Kretschmar who was born
with severe birth defects was killed on July 25, 1939 which was the
beginning of Germany's Euthanasia program known as Action T4. See
Wikipedia 'Gerhard Kretschmar' for more info.
Anonymous
Fredericksburg, VA
Fredericksburg, VA
July 30, 2009
To Shmuel in Sydney
I'm near the end of the fast - you've
completed it already - but kindly hear me out. I first read this
analogy in the Overview to Artscroll Megillas Eichah, which was their
second publication after Megillas Esther. Rabbi Nosson Scherman, who
wrote the Overview in many Artscroll books, noted that the Temple burned
mostly on the 10th of Av, but it was on the 9th of Av that the fires
were set. Rabbi Scherman analogized this to the start of World War I on
Tisha B'Av, saying it was then that the fires were set for the
Holocaust. As noted above, WWI and Germany's humiliating loss led to
the rise of Hitler and the need to find a scapegoat in the Jews. One
more thought: I have read that when it is a time for Moshiach to come
and Moshiach does not come, it brings terrible tragedies for the Jewish
people, and that the year 5700 was such a time. As you know, the Nazis
attacked Poland in September 1939, Erev Rosh Hashanah of 5700. I can't
remember the source for that thought, sorry.
Judy Resnick
Far Rockaway, NY
Far Rockaway, NY
July 30, 2009
RE: Holocaust long drawn-out conclusion of WWI?
Continued...
There are events that took place. Jewish tradition helps us remember Purim as it helps us remember Holocaust. Others may be lost/forgotten. Reasons for most are very undeteminate, except that G-d allowed them to take place. Eg: why is it that you and I are engaging in this conversation - nothing happens for no reason, but that does not mean that we have capacity to determine every reason.
Historians may propose explanations, but surely they cannot have any certainty. How much more so the author - on what grounds does he write with such surety "historians conclude"?
This article should be amended.
There are events that took place. Jewish tradition helps us remember Purim as it helps us remember Holocaust. Others may be lost/forgotten. Reasons for most are very undeteminate, except that G-d allowed them to take place. Eg: why is it that you and I are engaging in this conversation - nothing happens for no reason, but that does not mean that we have capacity to determine every reason.
Historians may propose explanations, but surely they cannot have any certainty. How much more so the author - on what grounds does he write with such surety "historians conclude"?
This article should be amended.
Shmuel
Sydney, Australia
Sydney, Australia
July 30, 2009
RE: Holocaust long drawn-out conclusion of WWI?
Dear Tina,
Thanks for commenting.
I understand this view, but I don't think any agrument will be convincing enough to force me to accept it or to reject it. In a 'system' of millions and millions of people, it is impossible to determine with any reasonable certainty the probability of one event being cause for another over 2 decades later! I don't see how I can be anything other than agnostic in this particular matter.
Otherwise, based on the same logic, one could also state that the Chinese invented gunpower and the Holocaust was a 'drawn-out conclusion' of this Chinese invention. Oh, and let's also say that Cain killed Abel on 9th of Av.
Thanks for commenting.
I understand this view, but I don't think any agrument will be convincing enough to force me to accept it or to reject it. In a 'system' of millions and millions of people, it is impossible to determine with any reasonable certainty the probability of one event being cause for another over 2 decades later! I don't see how I can be anything other than agnostic in this particular matter.
Otherwise, based on the same logic, one could also state that the Chinese invented gunpower and the Holocaust was a 'drawn-out conclusion' of this Chinese invention. Oh, and let's also say that Cain killed Abel on 9th of Av.
Shmuel
Sydney, Australia
Sydney, Australia
July 30, 2009
RE: Holocaust long drawn-out conclusion of WWI?
Dear Shmuel,
I believe the author is referring to the belief, held by many respected historians, that the Treaty of Versailles was a major cause of WWII. It blamed Germany for everything and left the Germans weak, socially and economically depressed, and disillusioned, and so they were ripe for a Fascist takeover.
I believe the author is referring to the belief, held by many respected historians, that the Treaty of Versailles was a major cause of WWII. It blamed Germany for everything and left the Germans weak, socially and economically depressed, and disillusioned, and so they were ripe for a Fascist takeover.
Tina
July 30, 2009
Holocaust long drawn-out conclusion of WWI?
I'm Jewish and I just fasted for ~25 hours, but I think this statement is absurd and ridiculous.
Dear Author,
Please refer me to your sources. I want to read the works of the historian who stated that WWII and Holocaust are long-draw out conclusions of WWI, which began on 9th of Av.
Dear Author,
Please refer me to your sources. I want to read the works of the historian who stated that WWII and Holocaust are long-draw out conclusions of WWI, which began on 9th of Av.
Shmuel
Sydney, Australia
Sydney, Australia
July 30, 2009
kristallnacht
I don't think it could have been Tisha B'av. Because I don't think Tisha B'av ever falls out in November.
Anonymous
July 29, 2009
kristalnacht?
Wasn't kristalnacht also on tisha b av?
Anonymous
miami, fl
miami, fl
July 29, 2009
cursed by God? Um...
I don't feel this is a correct term represening what's going on. It also places wrong ideas in people's minds about it.
It is a day of mourning and when certain elements reign, but I would not say cursed. We must console the divine presence for being exiled, just as much as we need consolation. When the divine presence is with us, blessing flows. Like electricity--the room is full of light. In the absence of current--spiritual current, it may be a dark room. It is not cursed. It is the Shechina in exile, crying for redemption. I strongly suggest you alter this term because it is misleading and detrimental.
It is a day of mourning and when certain elements reign, but I would not say cursed. We must console the divine presence for being exiled, just as much as we need consolation. When the divine presence is with us, blessing flows. Like electricity--the room is full of light. In the absence of current--spiritual current, it may be a dark room. It is not cursed. It is the Shechina in exile, crying for redemption. I strongly suggest you alter this term because it is misleading and detrimental.
What Evah
Jerusalem, Israel
Jerusalem, Israel
Today is 3/14/2014 2:30 am this morning I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep. I asked YHWH if there was something He wanted me to know. Jeremiah 10:10 came into my mind which says But YHWH is the true Elohim. He is the living Elohim and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, and the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. Then, I heard in 30 months you will need to leave.which would be September 2016. I knew this was somewhere around the 9th of Av. I don't know why I even thought that. So it prompted me to google 9th of Av 2016. And I came to this blog...interesting. I asked YHWH what is it we are to do in the next 2 1/2 years and I heard, keep the faith, trust me, live it out, prepare, prepare, prepare, get rid of, get in shape, get strong spiritually, mentally, physically, prepare others as they ask, warn them boldly, I will back you up, Ezekiel 3:16-21. This is not a regular occurrence for me to be woken up at this hour. It is now 5 am and I am wide awake very interesting....thought I would share...I don't usually comment on blogs..
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