Tuesday, March 15, 2022

DID THE PRIESTHOOD GET CANCELLED IN 1834?!? THE LONG ROAD TO APOSTASY

 So, there is an entire shitshow floating around out there trying to discredit the Church at a minimum from 1844 and on.  Most of it is centered around anything that will shoot down polygamy some of the most ardent supporters of this view are the DoC (Doctrine of Christ - aka Denver Snufferites) crowd.  Some of the tactic or most of it is to discredit Brigham Young (and, based on many things he had to say, it is possible to develop cracks in the veneer of him and what the Church wants to project about him and the role of PS&R).  I am not a raging fan of him (like I am of Benson and others), but I think the good he did far outweighs any bad he did.  He sits squarely in the group that President Trump sits in, as well as myself.  A little flappy-lipped and a few mean things to say on socialist media?  Yep.  But, overall - not rotten to the core.  We all have our warts, so we need to provide a little slack to others for their warts without excusing gross wickedness.

I have a few mentors here in the area that I use to gage myself against.  One clearly is not currently a big post-1844 fan, but is a monster Book of Mormon supporter and a scientist and seeker of truth.  A true Saint in every sense of the word.  His character is unimpeachable.  I do not think he is a current TR holder, nor is he active in the sense of church attendance.  He does not count his steps on the Sabbath....  The other is not a great scriptorian at all - but boy is he close to the Spirit and can really nail things that are off.  He is a "do it by the book" kind of Mormon, including "get the injection to follow the prophet" at any cost - though I think he has buyer's remorse on that one....  His wife is much like by wife - kind of a Molly, and she got the injection to be a "good" Mormon and because they are aged and have an at-risk person in their household.  This fellow would make a good Stake Patriarch at some point.  Come to think of it, both guys would make great Patriarchs.  I would be happy to go to either for a prophetic and inspired blessing.

So, I have tried to get traction with the one who says the Church is out of the way since 1844 by reminding him that he is a polygamist for having been sealed to two women at different times due to circumstances (this mirrors what happened to my dad when my mother died).  But, there are concerns over how the Priesthood was passed down since something in 1834 (the Church coming under condemnation, I think as laid out in the D&C).  This concern also spills over into the efficacy of the rites as learned in the Temple.  Quite frankly, as I have watched faith erode, it will eventually lead to criticisms of the Book of Mormon and eventually of Christ and then God.  I have watched some slow erosions of base tenets in some folks, and I have witnessed catastrophic landslides in personal testimonies in others.  It is fascinating to watch - from a human experience standpoint.  Sad from an eternal perspective and standpoint.

How do you combat that than to offer anecdotal evidences, such as - "Which Church has fulfilled the command to take the gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue and people?".  There is only one that was capable (and had the keys to do so).  The LDS church.  Which one experienced the most miracles?  Yep.  Mostly before the rejection of polygamy before 1890.  The minute we combined with Babylon, and leaned to our own understanding and relied upon the arm of flesh, we lost much of our collective power.  And we continue to do so to this day with each incremental downward step towards apostasy (read Jan 20th, 2020...).  I cannot name one person that I know personally who may have had a Three Nephites experience in my generation - while there are numerous people who had those experiences back in the day.  These are all anecdotal assurances that things, while not perfect, remained with the general body of the Saints.

I had one more monster witness to this on Sunday evening.  I went with my "by the book" friend over to another friend's house to discuss her windmill project and to visit and introduce the two friends to each other.  In the course of the evening, he bore testimony about how he joined the Church pushing 50 years ago.  He then was discussing his testimony of genealogy and he talked about one line he had that I believe is related to Joseph Smith.  I recognized Joseph's grandma's name.  He related that he was alone in a genealogical library and the Spirit whispered that he must look on a certain micro-fiche roll.  He went and got it and proceeded to scroll through it.  For those who have done it, the rolls can be huge.  He was alone in the room - but suddenly felt a presence standing behind him.  Knowing everyone else had gone home and he was alone, he was concerned and did not want to turn around to acknowledge his visitor at first (possibly out of fear that he was in some kind of danger from an unannounced presence).  Finally, he did turn around and saw the person he was looking for on the micro-fiche, dressed in 1700's garb.  He had died at sea in the Mediterranean and left a wife, etc.  My friend had been guided to find his name (his personal family records had messed his name up, so no one could nail him down easily in the official parish records - plus the burial at sea and no epitaph probably contributed to the confusion as to his real identity).  So, the heavenly visitor was there to set the record straight with my friend, his progeny.  After he identified himself on the micro-fiche records, the heavenly visitor set about to identify his wife elsewhere on the roll of microfilm.  After the facts were set straight, the visitor left the room.  Like the visit by my mom and son to my dad, they were not on the ground, but were between 1-2 feet off the ground.  In my personal experience, it is interesting to note that my mom (being endowed) and my son who died of SIDS were not in street clothes, but dressed in white robes - commensurate with their status.

After hearing this story from my friend, it immediately struck me the illogical nature of the claims against the Priesthood and modern temple ordinances made by many in the DoC movement.  It would make ZERO sense for a being from the other side to literally haunt his first ancestor to join the Church in order to get his work done, had the work not had the stamp and seal of approval of God or would have meant nothing due to the endowment being either garbage, corrupted or having no authority.  That the temple ordinances including sealings would not be valid at least back in the early 70's.  Otherwise, why would this have occurred?

To the most skeptical out there, there would be several possible explanations:

  • my friend was delusional
  • if the skeptic has any belief in anything spiritual, they could say he was deceived by an evil spirit impersonating the dead ancestor.
  • he had something to gain by making up this story about his ancestor.  Money, prestige, fame, etc.
The problem here is that the Spirit of the Lord was there in spades, as he relayed his sacred experience.  It was a feast for everyone in the room.  So, the skeptic would have to somehow negate the experiences of my wife, my female friend and my own.  We are all imperfect - but some of the best people I know.

So, for the naysayer - the burden of proof in an attempt to discredit this and many other first hand experiences is quite high.  I experienced this attempt at discreditation of sacred and powerful experiences when I got home from my mission and I had family members ask if I just had intense dreams or other experiences to explain away what I experienced.  It was a blow to me to realize how little faith many had and I withdrew from them in large part.  I never throw pearls before the wicked (the blog being the exception - for some who come here to naysay).

So, I encouraged my one friend to share his experience with my other friend who is struggling with his gospel perspective.  

My concern is that people are ignorant of the many stories in the Church that outline similar experiences by people who have proven their character over time.  One such treasure trove is in my favorite book, Life Everlasting by Duane S. Crowther.   Because their (people of the DoC group, etc) knowledge of contemporary miracles and manifestations of power is limited, they can be dismissive of other claims within the body of the Saints and then the erosion of tenets and beliefs begins as the wolves among the flock throw either half-truths out there or even outright lies or conjecture which is impossible to prove either way after so much time (I call it poo flinging).  It is a slippery slope that ends in much sorrow and difficulty for those without the gift of discernment required to avoid the pitfalls of apostasy. 

5 comments:

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  2. That is a neat experience. One must only look to the temple and the host of amazing experiences that nearly anyone can have by going there to see its authenticity. I have had many experiences just like your friends. I have seen many miracles in my life.... People arent perfect and never have been, thank goodness the lord does not require perfection. Brigham hand some faults but he was very prophetic. Just lookat the life of ephraim hanks as one example. 2 short stories just from his life. 1. He was at a party and was told to go home and shave, he did so, this is in ephraims rescue. The part that is not in the movie.. IS that the next moring while riding down the street on a horse he meet his wife and she ONLY liked clean shaven men. Brigham spot on. 2 Ephraim was building a rocks wall on his property that was 12 inches thick. Brigham came by and told him to tear it down and start over and build it atleast 18 inches thick. Frustrated he did so. A short period of time later and massive flood happened. IF he had not rebuild the wall he would have lost his home.... Just a few. One thing i will never understand is how anyone can believe in joseph smith and then claim that all the others prophets were lead astray or apostates. It goes against all of Joseph's Prophecy's about the destiny's of this church there are literally 100's of prophecies from joseph on the destiny's of this church and no one can dismiss them and still claim Joseph. Standard of Truth just one example.... Crazy fools. The Devil is good at his work.

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  3. These expirences always inspire me. My father was seriously wounded in Vietnam. He appeared to my grandmother to tell her he was hurt but will be coming home. In her vision he was missing his left arm. When she got word of his wounding a d was told he lost his right arm she corrected the military representative and let everyone know the left arm was missing. He survived and is still kicking today with soviet shrapnel around his heart.

    My grandparents were good Methodist and they always respected our religion the best service was doing their work in the temple for them.

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  4. Thanks for sharing this! I really feel the Spirit when I ponder on this and other accounts. We all need to strive and seek for personal manifestations that are like this or similar in nature. It is my spiritual experiences that have helped me to hold on when things that I know appear to be shaky. In time, I find out I was wise to have held on, when I find out the "other side of the story" or "the full truth" or the "perspective that is less well known". God does not disappoint. Sometimes, though, we need to have "reasons" to leave, so we can break the law of chastity, or not keep the word or widsdom, or be able to do this instead or that instead. Some people don't have pretenses and just admit; "I cannot do that or won't" or "I am too weak". Others have to have (whether convoluted or unconvuluted) reasons in scripture (which parts they choose to keep or discard) to justify certain attitudes and behaviors. We're free! (Free to do whatever we want.) And if we are not free, than we take the arguement that Korihor did, that they (commandments/leaders )are trying to get power over you, or that only sections or segments from this point on in time apply. Be free! Do not let yourself be yoked by another's rules and viewpoint! True. So basically, though, are they just another's viewpoint (the commandments of men) or are they God's? So we all have to be patient while seek to find out the truth. We all have PTSD, prejudices, baggage which block the channel of feeling the spirit, just as cholesterol can block an artery.

    It's okay. It's all good. We are all figuring it out and hopefully with real intent, and we judge eachother less than we reflect and introspect on our own attitudes and intents...hopefully with a little bit of logic and a little bit of spirit.

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  5. The talk about miracles not being mentioned or ignored:
    A book I enjoy time and again is by N. B. Lundwall, "The fate of the Persecutors of Prophet Joseph Smith" I have an old hard back of this from my parents. Published 1952. Don't know if one could ever find another. I would imagine it is out of favor with the Church. It may great stories of Joseph and examples of when he would receive a revelation when speaking, his face would glow and become somewhat transparent. At least two eye witnesses of these and other experiences, as well as the terrible things that occurred to the members of the mob that took his life.

    It is not unusual for experiences to occur today.
    My aunt years ago was taking a nap in the afternoon, waiting for her daughter to bear her first child, as she was awakening from sleep, she saw a little girl in front of her for a moment shortly before her birth.

    Another time my aunt looked out on to a man bridge near her home in Bountiful and saw the image of her dead mother and her cousin. They were both looking towards the east and talking. My Aunt had the impression that something was wrong with the cousins son who lived to the east not far away. This was a warning that lead to his rescue.

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