I do not pretend to know more than the ordained servants of the Lord - but I WILL say that Isaiah's words (for our day) trumps the words of our current Prophet, the words of Nephi and are only eclipsed by the words of the Savior. When up against a wall and a decision must be made, this is my decision tree.
Folks, those who are clamoring with the statement that we need to follow the Prophet. I say, you are right. We need to follow the Prophet (even a dead one), just as Christ pointed us to follow the words of Isaiah. Chapter 28 to be exact:
1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the adrunkards of bEphraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of cthe fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a atempest of hail and a destroying bstorm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:
4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the ahasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.
5 ¶ In athat day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of bglory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
7 ¶ But athey also have berred through cwine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the dprophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and afilthiness, so that there is no place clean.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing ascourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our brefuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a afoundation a bstone, a tried stone, a precious ccorner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 ¶ And ayour covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
According to this, we are hooped people! Do not fall for the lies of the New Word Odor. President Nelson will not die a natural death. I wonder if this is tied into that. Verse 18 is key. This is it!
Great are the words of Isaiah.
I will refer to a certain meeting I attended in the town of Kirtland in my early days. At that meeting some remarks were made that have been made here today, with regard to the living oracles and with regard to the written word of God. The same principle was presented, although not as extensively as it has been here, when a leading man in the Church got up and talked upon the subject, and said: “You have got the word of God before you here in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants; you have the written word of God, and you who give revelations should give revelations according to those books, as what is written in those books is the word of God. We should confine ourselves to them.” When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, “Brother Brigham I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the written oracles and the written word of God.” Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: “There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day.” “And now,” said he, “when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the [p.23]writing in the books.” That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the congregation: “Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth.” (Conference Report, October 1897, p.22)
ReplyDeleteYou know what is rather unfortunate is this: I will bet that you will see comments on this article you wrote refuting your position to hear the dead prophets with statements like from Ezra T Benson when he warned "do not pit the dead prophets against living ones".
ReplyDeletePres. Benson said some really poignant things in his day but this statement is short sighted and spiritually deadening.
why?
Do you count Jesus as any sort of prophet you should listen to... rather hearken to?
You do? Then why will ye die?
You don't? you should!
He IS the prophet that Moses, Nephi, Moroni and Peter and then finally Jesus himself affirmed we should hearken to or else our fate would be 1. cut off and/or 2. be destroyed.
What did Jesus say about Isaiah? I'd invite all to refresh their mind that the Lord warned and admonished us to read and study the words of Isaiah for they are great words. He also said that all things that have been (in Isaiah) will be.
Isaiah is our road map, our warning, and basically the field guide for how end time servants and gatherers will find ascension inside of a faithful living of the Everlasting Covenant. (The Everlasting Covenant has nothing to do with polygamy)
I invite all who read this to ponder, pray, study Isaiah 28 (and the rest of Isaiah) and THEN go read it's companion piece in 2Nephi 28. All is not well in Zion. We, the lds, are fraught with many damnable precepts of men encouraging us to trust in the arm of the flesh and rely on temples instead of Jesus to transform us and save us.
The problem is, the temple cannot transform or save us. Only Jesus does that through HIS ordinances of a full and complete baptism in HIS name of water, fire, and holy ghost.
Hearken to the Lord. Read and know Isaiah. It's all there in plain sight. "Why will ye die?" Here are the scriptures that support this:
JSH 1:39-40
1 Nephi 22:20-22
Deuteronomy 18
Acts 3:22-23
and finally..
3Nephi 20:23 Where Jesus confirms, Moses, Peter, Nephi and Moroni's warning to us. Hearken to the Lord as your prophet or be cut off...
23 Behold, I am he of whom Moses spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people.
If you hearken to HIM, you will be transformed through his Gospel and Doctrine of ascension via baptism of fire and baptism of the holy ghost as HE taught plainly in 3 Nephi 9, 11, 12; 2 Nephi 30-33; Mosiah 2-5; Moses 5:10-11; Moses 6.
God bless you
as to Dax's comment. Check that source date. That source comes from the year 1897 and from polygamous Utah territory.
ReplyDeleteThey said Joseph said those words. There is plenty of things that Joseph said that cast doubt on the content of that purported statement.
The Utah church in 1897 was going through very strenuous times with the federal government breathing down their necks threatening statehood re:polygamy.
The Utah church was willing to create false statements about polygamy and tie it all to Joseph when all Nauvoo historical records show us is that at every turn, Joseph fought polygamy.
They were willin to throw Joseph under the bus to prop up their polygamy blunder.
Joseph new and taught the Everlasting Covenant plainly. He never once encouraged men to follow other men.
This statement Dax shows is dubious and spiritually deadening.
To be clear, I celebrate any man who does their best to point other men to Christ... including modern prophets.
I have a problem with them when they begin to deviate away from what the Lord established as His Gospel and Doctrine in 3 Nephi 9, 11, and 12.
So many plainly written scriptures warn against putting ones trust in man "whose breath is in his nostrils". The arm of the flesh is unreliable and cannot save you.
The arm of the flesh always leads to apostasy.
Read Isaiah 28 and 2 Nephi 28 together. Then 3 Nephi 20 and 3 Nephi 16
"10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them."
we are the Gentiles.
We are under condemnation for ignoring the Book of Mormon per D&C 84.
We are Ephraim and there is drunkenness in our hearts.
Isaiah is plain. He warns us over and over again and again to get rid of our idols. Destroy them. Discard them like a menstruous cloth (Isaiah 30:22). Throw them away into deep holes in the earth where the moles and bats hide (Isaiah 2:20). The reference to casting ourselves begore God apart from our idolatry is almost endless in Isaiah.
Get sober, Ephraim
I'm not sure where the idea comes from that Pres. Nelson wouldn't die a natural death. I guess I didn't see that interpretation in these verses. Maybe someone could enlighten me?
ReplyDeleteJoseph did say that his dispensation could not claim the blessings of previous dispensations, but that is not the same as Dax's quote that implies that modern prophets can overrule previous prophets. In fact, true prophets throughout history have always QUOTED previous prophets, expounding on the writings of prior prophets (scriptures). Nephi and the Lord both quoted Isaiah. Joseph would frequently refer to a teaching in the Bible before expounding upon it and giving a correct interpretation. Abraham sought diligently for greater knowledge and as a result, he received the Book of Remembrance which was Adam's gospel teachings.
In fact, on the very day of His resurrection, Christ walked with two believers on the road to Emmaus and explained in great detail the meaning of the scriptures about His coming in mortality.
"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."
If the Lord Himself thought it important to use the scriptures to back up what He taught, it would seem modern prophets have an obligation to do the same. Their teachings may expand upon what was given before, but it should not contradict it. Truth is truth and it doesn't change with time.
As for Isaiah 28 and 2 Nephi 28, they do indeed condemn us rather fiercely. Many of you will be familiar with the books and teachings of Bro. Avraham Gileadi, a Jewish man who converted to Mormonism as a young man, who has made it his life's work to study and explain the teachings of Isaiah.
While it's not necessary to accept all his conclusions as gospel, one can be greatly enlightened by reading his commentaries. He has a nicely-done website that has much of his teachings on Isaiah. To see his commentary on Isaiah 28, go here, it's rather damning of us: https://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary