So, I was working in the area of our newly called Stake President and our EQ President.
Both are well-heeled. In the extreme. Nothing wrong with that.
So, the Bishop had just been up to see the EQ President about something and he stopped to see me since I was partially blocking the road. We chatted for a bit. I outed myself as a Trumper and one who believes things are about to change drastically. He listened politely, even as I laid out my case that we will see refugees in Cardston.
There was hardly a glimmer of concern other than possibly for the state of my mental health.... And that was that. Really nice fellow, great countenance. Not a modicum of concern that I could tell. Just a pitch for services of his business.
Zion is screwed.....
Words of alarm from Arnold in my comments:
I have been concerned that many active members may go to church, follow the lessons with the requisite reading, attend the temple faithfully and are completely ignorant of events of the 2nd coming. That is something to happen far into the future and they will be long gone by then, and they have no need to understand something too difficult to understand and they just plainly do not have the interest with all the distractions that "The World" presents. And of course the Brethren would warn us. If I am not mistaken, we were commanded to look to his coming. If we are looking to his coming, we are doing more than just reading scripture. We are studying the course of events in the world, we are looking to unde world events... requiring us to use discernment, to study, pondering and pray if all else fails. The Spirit has little ability to guide if we are not putting forth the effort. People will assume that the Leadership of the LDS Church are somehow all knowing. They look at everything objectively without prejudice. To me the Church's Leadership support of masking, social separation, shut down of churches and the temples in line with the media and government fraudulent Covid pandemic is almost as disturbing as the as the abuse of Government. I am disturbed that they are deceiving the membership to accept the deception and lies of the Powers That Be. There is a drive to be more accepted of The World with the idea in mind to attack more members, which may mean compromise. The best people, the ones really looking, are those who have the ability to discern truths capable of being dependable, and such would be turned off by the obvious compromises. Joel Skousen's view is that the Church reacts to the past view the World has had of the Church and are bending over to be more acceptable. I know people have had endless excuses to blame the early Saints for the reasons they were forced out of Kirtland, Independence, Far West and Nauvoo. They just forgot Satan will find ways to stir up ignorant, prideful and wicked people. Now I could be wrong in my assessment, but I have seen this disconnect long time and my view has not changed. I usually depend upon time to reveal more truths. Now, am I speaking Ill of the Leadership? If I am speaking Ill....I am lying, or in someway trying to tear down the Church. Do I ignore the elephant in the room and continue to say nothing? Am I a part of the deception if I say nothing? All prophets I have read of in scripture have been very unpopular with the wicked. They tell the people straight up what their problem is and the solution and the people come undone and try and kill the Prophets. Years past when I read the newspaper, I was stunned at how liberal, even Marxist, some BYU professors were, who wrote opinion pieces in the paper, even to a point of lunacy. Maybe it's no wonder so many members have abandoned their support the principals of the US Constitution for socialism. And amidst all this there is crickets from the Brethren. You can't just say prophets statements in the past are still valid. Does anyone think Moroni or Mormon would be silent on these points when it is in process. I have no clue how on earth the Elders of the Church will preserve the Constitution when they have so little respect for it.
The lord is in charge! Let God previal! WHen the wicked are fully ripe he will do his thing. We have been told enough by Pres. Nelson to hear and to see. If we do not apply his counsil, To bad for the sleepy. I have a couple my family.
ReplyDeleteI would say you're on ice here, Iraq. Be careful. It's easy to confuse apathy and capitulation with patience and wisdom.
ReplyDeleteHmm. Thin ice... Or maybe a distinct truth that is unpopular. The brethren have been wrong on many many occasions politically and in regards to church policy. J. Reuben supported the Nazis and blocked LDS members of Jewish ancestry from escaping Germany & Austria when he could have done something so easy to save them. Blacks in the priesthood.... There is the elephant. And most shocking to me is that you can deny Christ, blaspheme against God and be just fine but if you even question leadership you might be in trouble. I know this is Christ's church and the BOM is true. But my faith is in Christ and him alone as the leaders are not the gateway and are fallible when they are not speaking directly for the Lord and with his guidance. You have the right to question the leaders, to ask them if what they are doing is correct when inspired. To do otherwise is idol worship and wrong I quote "“We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them (even) if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without any questions. When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves.”10 0 Millennial Star, Vol. 14, Num. 38, pp.593-595 Brigham Young"
DeleteI personally feel this person is being critical about others. He/She seems to be frustrated. Leaders of the Church know exactly what's going on. This past general conference proves they know and they don't need to make it known to the government or the world what they truly think about their plandemic. Their messages was clearly a voice of warning and if the members are slumbering then so be it. However, we are to also be a warning voice and help others understand the times we live in. Instead of being judgmental without even knowing the hearts of men, perhaps be the light that shines the way.
ReplyDeleteI actually agree with you, Iraq. The church has been walking a line way too condoning of the Marxist agenda—which is ultimately Satan’s agenda. And members are becoming way too complacent thinking they are too just sit back and comply because the brethren have gone along. The church has basically turned a blind eye to the dangers overcoming this nation—contrary to the Book of Mormon warnings—and members have been killed to sleep thinking they’re being “good global citizens.”
ReplyDeleteOur scriptures teach we are to support ONLY that law if the land which is Constitutional. Mandates that contradict the very fabric on the Constitution’s Bill of Rights should not be advocated. We are marching toward enslavement by an ideology that seeks to destroy religious freedom ultimate—and we are going down without a whimper because everyone is so trusting that we can’t possibly be misguided—-ever! Well, that’s not what Joseph Smith taught—-and he is the dispensation head to which all successors must conform their teachings.
Here’s another good one for you although you may be familiar with this one.
“And none are required to tamely and blindly submit to a man because he has a portion of the priesthood. We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark, that they would do anything they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God… would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without asking any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their minds to do wrong themselves. – Joseph Smith, Millennial Star, vol.14 #38, page 593-95
Thank you, Karen, well said.
DeleteOne more Joseph Smith quote applicable today:
ReplyDeleteJoseph Smith, Millennial Star, Vol. 14, Num. 38, pp.593-595 “More thinking is required, and we should all exercise our God-given right to think and be unafraid to express our opinions, with proper respect for those to whom we talk and proper acknowledgment of our own shortcomings. We must preserve freedom of the mind in the church and resist all efforts to suppress it. The church is not so much concerned with whether the thoughts of its members are orthodox or heterodox as it is that they shall have thoughts.”
I second all of the previous three comments.
ReplyDeleteIraq, your comments are becoming increasingly apostate.
I have followed you quietly for many years. Now I am becoming more and more troubled at your open rebellion toward the mouth piece of the Lord.
The Lord knows the end from the beginning. He has testified to me that Russell Nelson is his worth and chosen prophet. Getting crosswise with Russell is getting crosswise with God.
I would quickly repent and reconsider. You are to good of a man to loose to apostasy.
I disagree, your are placing a man between yourself and God. Yes, President Nelson is the prophet but not whom we follow. He holds a calling, has his own life mission but so do you/I. We should always ask Him to confirm anything and anyone that tells us things regardless of title or calling in church or government. We should not put our trust in man.
DeleteI would like to add one more comment. I would like to ask all of the commenters and reader's of your blog who fear you are increasingly apostate what the definition of apostasy really is? Is it turning away from Christ and His teachings, or does it relate to loyalty to hierarchal leadership?
ReplyDeleteIf the LDS Church and the brethren claim that they receive a vision/revelation in the next 3-4 years that condones same-sex marriages ---will you have treasured up the word of God sufficiently to detect that the church leaders are being deceived? Or will you place so much confidence in them, that you will opt to heed direction that counters everything the Lord has said since the creation and eternity?
You may sit back and say to yourself, "That will never happen." Well, mark down this date. I'm predicting it WILL happen before the next presidential election (2024) occurs. Every member of this church is going to be faced with the TEST from the Lord to see if you have loyalty to HIM, or if your loyalty and faith rests upon men who you believe to be infallible. We aren't going to get away without being tested as equally as all the children of Israel have been tested. Go ahead---scoff, mock, condemn those who are sounding the alarm. Isaiah seemed to sound a similar alarm thousands of years ago when he prophesied about our leaders.
i agree with karen, i have been a member for all my life and the churches apathy has continually increased, in my opinion god will cut us off from the leaders, pres nelson is still my prophet and he will answer for his mistakes just as i will, and he has prepared us for their lack of help by telling the membership they will not survive without personal revelation, Joseph smith lost 50% of the membership 1838 with the fiasco of the failed bank. as to roy, God didnt stop the failure of the bank instead he watched 50% of the members lose faith in Joseph smith, we are headed for unprecedented days,
ReplyDeleteGood example, we need to think and ask for ourselves from Him.
DeleteRoy you are confusing prophet with king in your interpretation. King is what Brigham Young created in the calling you call "prophet". The church has followed Young's example since then. Go back and read the Book of Mormon with out the traditions of the current LDS people. Then you can understand the fulness of the gospel that is contained within. Christ came and criticized the rulers of the church in Jerusalem. In the America's before Christ came back it was the the church leaders "high priests" who combined with judges and lawyers to deprive the people of truth and liberty 3 Nephi 6 and 7. Joseph Smith's first vision includes the idea that all churches are bad and not to join any of them.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes us think that the LDS church could not also be in a state needing severe correction.
Truth, President Benson told us we have been infiltrated.
DeletePresident Benson: (from his talk,' To the Humble followers of Christ')
“Sometimes we hear someone refer to a division in the Church. In reality, the Church is not divided. It simply means that there are some who, for the time being at least, are members of the Church but not in harmony with it. These people have a temporary membership and influence in the Church; but unless they repent, they will be missing when the final membership records are recorded.
“It is well that our people understand this principle, so they will not be misled by those apostates within the Church who have not yet repented or been cut off. But there is a cleansing coming. The Lord says that his vengeance shall be poured out “upon the inhabitants of the earth. . . . And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me. . . .” (D&C 112:24–26.). I look forward to that cleansing; its need within the Church is becoming increasingly apparent.
“The Lord strengthened the faith of the early apostles by pointing out Judas as a traitor, even before this apostle had completed his iniquitous work. So also in our day the Lord has told us of the tares within the wheat that will eventually be hewn down when they are fully ripe. But until they are hewn down, they will be with us, amongst us…
“Yes, within the Church today there are tares among the wheat and wolves within the flock. As President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., stated: “The ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep’s clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood. . . . We should be careful of them. . . .” (Conference Report, April 1949, p. 163.)
“The wolves amongst our flock are more numerous and devious today than when President Clark made this statement.
“Not only are there apostates within our midst, but there are also apostate doctrines that are sometimes taught in our classes and from our pulpits and that appear in our publications. And these apostate precepts of men cause our people to stumble. As the Book of Mormon, speaking of our day, states: “. . . they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.” (2 Ne. 28:14.)” ––– Ezra Taft Benson, God, Family, Country, 253-263.
I second Karen's non-"Karen" observations that JS approved of intellectual autonomy within the Church. We have all become so fearful of expressing an idea that deviates in the slightest from the Church's official narrative that we have become like the proverbial lemmings.
ReplyDeleteWhy not address the substance of Iraq's opinions instead of shaming him for being an "apostate"? Y'all are like the cowardly judges/justices who refuse to consider the merits of the many election fraud cases because they find some procedural reason to dismiss them. If what Bro. Wood says has any substance, engage him on the merits and persuade us all as to why he is either right or wrong.
Joseph Smith also taught, referring to Pelatiah Brown, who had been censured by the high council for teaching false doctrine:
"I did not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodist, and not like the Latter Day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be asked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammeled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine."
If we entrust our salvation to a man, or group of men, we are cursed!
2 Ne 4:34
"O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm."
The proper role of a prophet is to teach the words he has received directly from the Lord or one of His angelic ministers. He is not to be venerated, or spoken of in hushed tones, as though he is somehow better than the rest of us. He is not to be an "authority" figure. His worth comes from his words, not his position.
King Benjamin is the best role model for a prophet. He labored alongside the people, did not seek to elevate his status in the eyes of the people and confessed openly that he suffered infirmities of mind and body. In other words, he was just a dude! Sure, he talked to angels, but he was totally chill about it.
I love the fact that Bro. Wood's eyes are beginning to open. Because of that, he is breaking free of the trap that Nephi warned the Saints they would be lured into.
2 Nephi 28:21
"And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security (security = trusting, carnal = flesh), that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell."
Amazing!!!!! Exactly how I feel!!!
ReplyDeleteThank you, Kevin, for sharing this scripture.
ReplyDelete“We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them (even) if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without any questions. When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves.”10 0 Millennial Star, Vol. 14, Num. 38, pp.593-595 Brigham Young
ReplyDeleteSome reflective questions for all those who have posted on this thread. I don't want your answers. They are not for me. Just be honest with yourself, with God, and act accordingly.
ReplyDeleteDo you believe the comments and feelings expressed about the leadership of the church, on this page, bring us closer to an honest answer of the fourth temple recommend question?
To clarify, as I understand it, "sustaining" is not blind obedience or a dictatorship. But, rather helping and assisting those accomplish their assignments/stewardships in faith. So again, are the posted comments in this thread sustaining the leadership in their callings?
Again, I am not casting stones, just asking for us to internally reflect on our own feelings. You decide, you be your own judge, and you act accordingly.
We all love Christ. I don't doubt your testimony in Him. We all want to be with him again. And as we reflect on the comments shared on this thread, do they build up faith and devotion in Jesus or are they critical of those that He has called to fulfill His purposes.
I understand and agree that no one is perfect. That's why we are here. But, are we to tear anyone down if they stumble? Do we gossip about them behind their backs? Do we criticize on anonymous blogs? How should we really behave towards our fellow brothers and sisters?
If we truly do love Christ, how can we better follow His example? Like it or not, these leaders have been called and set apart. These leaders have been approved by Him - even with all of their flaws. The question is, how will we behave to better help them accomplish their assignment of preparing the church and the world for Christ's return? We all have great ideas. But, have we tried to properly communicate those, rather than grumble that they are doing it wrong? Are we humble enough to accept someone else's ideas?
Ultimately, how will we answer Jesus when He asks us about what we did to sustain the work? Will we be excited to show Him the comments on this thread?
I am so happy that you are among the followers of Christ. We need all the help we can get in these final days. Let's all be on the same team and not be divided from within. That's how the opposition wins.