There are many controversial things on this blog you will know I just face straight on; and I will list them:
- God allows many innocent to die in order to benefit mankind in general (Flood)
- God will bend His existing rules to test your obedience (Abrahamic test of Isaac/Nephi and Laban)
- God asks all things of those who will enter His kingdom (Job and overwhelming trials)
- God allows you to pass through all things until you are completely refined. Each trial overcome will lead you to your next greatest trial until you stand approved. Depending on your level of faith and experience under God's tutelage, your greatest trial may be Word of Wisdom issues, it may be Tithing, it may be purity of thought issues, it may be something I would consider a non-issue in my life. God then moves up to the next level. He may ask you to give up one of your children early on in order to further His purposes. He may ask you to give your wealth for the Kingdom. You may be asked to give an inordinate amount of your time. Each thing requiring more and more until you come to a fulness of realization of "Not mine, but thy will be done." This is the ultimate in Consecration - giving it all. Endowed members of this Church commit to that - the sacrifice of all things upon the altar. That is where the power lies - where greatness and largeness of spirit is achieved. When you simply give your will to the Father and leave the things of this world behind.
- Jesus was married (had to be in order to be a Rabbi) - same requirement for a Bishop in today's vernacular. Jesus was married multiply - to more than one woman. Jesus had offspring. I have identified several of them, so far. Their works are extraordinary - their gifts sublime. They are light-filled people and I am drawn to them. He was allowed to have those offspring to bless the world - a world so dark that it killed the very Son of God. This infusion was critical to make sure that light would burst upon it in the last days in preparation for Millennial Glory.
- Joseph had multiple wives - and much offspring; contrary to known convention. Me, several years ago, making this statement to my former bishop led to some tension between he and I - he will come around. The few children we see by Emma were not remarkable in any way. There were others that came through the loins of other wives who were remarkable in their own way. I would have given alot to have seen the progeny of Eliza Roxcy Snow and Joseph. Joseph was one in 10 billion. Eliza was one in 10 billion, as well. Without sounding like I am worshipping the man - and he was a mere mortal - he was off the charts in what he accomplished in his short 39 years. I can relate to him - and have since I first read Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith - because I am a visionary man; a fraction of what he was, but one never-the-less. As the Church is a light or a conduit which draws good people to it because the teachings are unique and sweet to the taste, so was the one who restored it to the earth in this last dispensation. People will read the history and they will be drawn to it - it will be sweet to them, or they will be repulsed. There are three basic reasons they may be repulsed by this history; 1) They have been blinded by the traditions of their fathers - turned against it; or they know not where to find the truth 2) They are too intellectually lazy to read enough to develop a flavor of how God operates - and then apply that flavor to what they see around them to find the real deal 3) They are wicked and cannot endure sound doctrine - and, because of that wicked spirit, they fight against God and seek the life of His servants who speak the truth.
One of the hardest things I have to endure in this life are imperfect people bickering and squabbling over petty things. When it reaches a point, I declare that we (or the people who are squabbling) will be humbled, and the humblings begin; sometimes in remarkable ways. I posted about the fire in our kitchen a few weeks ago - a direct result of someone in our family unit who was struggling with pride. The declaration was made, the changes came about. An incident since then - same thing. At the beginning of this year, the statement was made, and in the act of saying it 500 miles away, the act of humbling was unfolding in our chicken yard. Mostly, we are slow to learn. Years ago, my wife at six months into our marriage, proudly declared that Joseph was astray in the polygamy/polyandry issue. I immediately went to his defense (overbearingly) and it drove a wedge between us. I knew at that point, that we would pass through some hard things in order that we would be perfected in that one point. We can choose to be humble, or we can allow God to take care of it. If God has to take care of it, it is a slow and grinding process that can take decades - for some, an eternity. I did not have enough charity or empathy when dealing with my wife. My wife did not have enough faith and submissiveness when dealing with God and understanding His ways.
In our affliction, we were brought to know the ways of empathy and stewardship/consecration. Twenty years later, we have just now begun to "turn the corner" together and begin the journey to further light and knowledge. I think we have both become unselfish enough, that if it were the right thing for the other, we would allow it; seeking first the will of the Father, then the best thing for the other person - regardless of how we would be affected. When you first take the other person's needs into consideration over your own, you begin to unlock the true love and power in a relationship. I see failed marriages and emotional wreckage all about me and shudder at the damage - the innocent children suffer the most. The first sign of cracking in the hull of the sinking ship is when one became selfish and sought their own will over that of the other. Even in a temple marriage that should be immune to these sorts of things, its when God is tossed out of the relationship or when one seeks their own will over that of the other that things begin to sour.
So what does the above rambling have to do with anything? Those who make light of the most sacred things in God's kingdom will be swept from off the earth; this is a sifting doctrine. Those who do not understand the essence of consecration will not be allowed to be a part of it in the Millennium - by default they will be de-selected, just as a third of the host of heaven de-selected themselves over the issue of agency and its proper implementation. Same with those who perished in the flood in Noah's day. They have no posterity. If you are de-selected for lack of concern over the things of God, your chain will end at the beginning of this glorious last thousand years. How do you avoid the wrong side of this sifting process??
First, seek to have the Spirit in your life - and seek it abundantly. Then, seek only God's will - no exceptions. Be obedient - completely. Seek for Him to change the inner person - to be born again. Allow trials to build you into a more compliant, complete person. Put your trust in God. Ask for growth opportunities - learn the lessons from them that God wants you to learn. Trust Him completely. Talk with angels and enjoy the full life of personal revelation that will flow into your life without compulsion. Seek to see His face in this life. Be ready for anything that comes - because you do not fear anything.
When you are there - what you are called to pass through or accept, doctrinal or trial-wise is nothing because you have finally completely accepted God's will; you know He will not ask anything of you that will not be best for you.
Here is an excerpt from the life of Mary Lightner that exhibited this kind of faith and trust in God:
The Testimony of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner
Mary Lightner, Address to Brigham Young University, 1905,
BYU Archives and Manuscripts
Source: Mary Elizabeth Lightner, Address at Brigham Young University,
April 14, 1905, typescript, BYU.
TESTIMONY OF MARY ELIZABETH LIGHTNER
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU, p.1
Remarks by Sister Mary E. Lightner who was sealed to Joseph Smith in 1842. She is 87 years of age.]
Well, my young brethren, I can say I never was more surprised in my life than to be called upon to speak to you young men who are called upon to go into the mission field to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth. It is true I have been in the Church from its beginning. Just six months after it was organized, I joined it. I have been acquainted with all of those who were first members of this Church, with all of those who saw the plates and handled them, with even those who saw the angel Moroni who came to them. I am well acquainted with every one of them and I have known them from the time that they came to Ohio until their death; and I am the only living witness who was at the first meeting that the Prophet [Joseph Smith] held in Kirtland.
The Smith family was driven from New York, and a small church had been organized. Oliver Cowdery, Peter Whitmer, and Ziba Peterson were members. Well, I being anxious, though young, to learn about the plates from those who knew all about it, my mother and I went up to the Smith family the next night after they came to Kirtland. As I went in, there were two or three others present. They were all there, from the old gentleman and his wife to all the sons and daughters. As we stood there talking to them, Joseph and Martin Harris came in. Joseph looked around very solemnly. It was the first time some of them had ever seen him.
Said he, "There are enough here to hold a little meeting." They got a board and put it across two chairs to make seats. Martin Harris sat on a little box at Joseph's feet. They sang and prayed. Joseph got up and began to speak to us. As he began to speak very solemnly and very earnestly, all at once his countenance changed and he stood mute. Those who looked at him that day said there was a search light within him, over every part of his body. I never saw anything like it on the earth. I could not take my eyes off him; he got so white that anyone who saw him would have thought he was transparent. I remember I thought I could almost see the cheek bones through the flesh. I have been through many changes since but that is photographed on my brain. I shall remember it and see in my mind's eye as long as I remain upon the earth.
He stood some moments. He looked over the congregation as if to pierce every heart. He said, "Do you know who has been in your midst?" One of the Smiths said an angel of the Lord. Martin Harris said, "It was our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ." Joseph put his hand down on Martin and said: "God revealed that to you. Brethren and sisters, the Spirit of God has been here. The Savior has been in your midst this night and I want you to remember it. There is a veil over your eyes for you could not endure to look upon Him. You must be fed with milk, not with strong meat. I want you to remember this as if it were the last thing that escaped my lips. He has given all of you to me and has sealed you up to everlasting life that where he is, you may be also. And if you are tempted of Satan say, 'Get behind me, Satan.'"
These words are figured upon my brain and I never took my eye off his countenance. Then he knelt down and prayed. I have never heard anything like it before or since. I felt that he was talking to the Lord and that power rested down upon the congregation. Every soul felt it. The spirit rested upon us in every fiber of our bodies, and we received a sermon from the lips of the representative of God.
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU, p.1 - p.2
Much has come and gone from me through the powers and vicissitudes of this Church. I have been in almost every mob. I have been driven about and told I would be shot and had a gun pointed at me, but I stayed with the Church until it was driven from Nauvoo. The words of the Prophet that had been revealed to him always have been with me from the beginning to the end of the gospel. Every principle that has been given in the Church by the prophet is true. I know whereon I stand, I know what I believe, I know what I know and I know what I testify to you is the living truth. As I expect to meet it at the bar of the eternal Jehovah, it is true. And when you stand before the bar you will know. He preached polygamy and he not only preached it, but he practiced it. I am a living witness to it. It was given to him before he gave it to the Church. An angel came to him and the last time he came with a drawn sword in his hand and told Joseph if he did not go into that principle, he would slay him. Joseph said he talked to him soberly about it, and told him it was an abomination and quoted scripture to him. He said in the Book of Mormon it was an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, and they were to adhere to these things except the Lord speak. I am the first being that the revelation [D&C 132] was given to him for and I was one thousand miles away in Missouri, for we went up to Jackson County in 1841 [1831].
I was there in all the tribulations and trials. I have been in the houses that have been stoned. The rocks have been thrown criss-cross in every direction. I have seen the brethren shot and ruined for life. I saw the first martyr dead and a more heavenly corpse I never saw or expect to see on the face of the earth. His face was so happy. I have seen our bishop tarred and feathered in the streets of Missouri. They took off his shirt and covered him with tar and then took a pillow and turned the feathers over him. I looked at him and thought if ever man was counted worthy to be a martyr, he was. His life proved it for he lived an upright and honorable life and was beloved by the prophet while he lived and after he died the prophet honored him. Two of his sisters were Joseph's wives. Emma took them by the hand and gave them to Joseph.
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU, p.2
I asked him if Emma knew about me, and he said, "Emma thinks the world of you." I was not sealed to him until I had a witness. I had been dreaming for a number of years I was his wife. I thought I was a great sinner. I prayed to God to take it from me for I felt it was a sin; but when Joseph sent for me he told me all of these things. "Well," said I, "don't you think it was an angel of the devil that told you these things?" Said he, "No, it was an angel of God. God Almighty showed me the difference between an angel of light and Satan's angels. The angel came to me three times between the years of 1834 and 1842 and said I was to obey that principle or he would slay me. "But," said he, "they called me a false and fallen prophet but I am more in favor with my God this day than I ever was in all my life before. I know that I shall be saved in the Kingdom of God. I have the oath of God upon it and God cannot lie; all that he gives me I shall take with me for I have that authority and that power conferred upon me."
Well, I talked with him for a long time and finally I told him I would never be sealed to him until I had a witness. Said he, "You shall have a witness." Said I, "If God told you that, why does he not tell me?" He asked me if I was going to be a traitor. "I have never told a mortal and shall never tell a mortal I had such a talk from a married man," said I. "Well," said he, "pray earnestly for the angel said to me you should have a witness." Well, Brigham Young was with me. He said if I had a witness he wanted to know it. "Why should I tell you?" said I. "Well," said he, "I want to know for myself." Said he, "Do you know what Joseph said? Since we left the office the angel appeared to him and told him he was well pleased with him and that you should have a witness."
I made it a subject of prayer and I worried about it because I did not dare to speak to a living being except Brigham Young. I went out and got between three haystacks where no one could see me. As I knelt down I thought, why not pray as Moses did? He prayed with his hands raised. When his hands were raised, Israel was victorious, but when they were not raised, the Philistines were victorious. I lifted my hands and I have heard Joseph say the angels covered their faces. I knelt down and if ever a poor mortal prayed, I did. A few nights after that an angel of the Lord came to me and if ever a thrill went through a mortal, it went through me. I gazed upon the clothes and figure but the eyes were like lightning. They pierced me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. I was frightened almost to death for a moment. I tried to waken my aunt, but I could not. The angel leaned over me and the light was very great, although it was night. When my aunt woke up she said she had seen a figure in white robes pass from our bed to my mother's bed and pass out of the window.
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU, p.2 - p.3
Joseph came up the next Sabbath. He said, "Have you had a witness yet?" "No." "Well," said he, "the angel expressly told me you should have." Said I, "I have not had a witness, but I have seen something I have never seen before. I saw an angel and I was frightened almost to death. I did not speak." He studied a while and put his elbows on his knees and his face in his hands. He looked up and said, "How could you have been such a coward?" Said I, "I was weak." "Did you think to say, 'Father, help me?'" "No." "Well, if you had just said that, your mouth would have been opened for that was an angel of the living God. He came to you with more knowledge, intelligence, and light than I have ever dared to reveal." I said, "If that was an angel of light, why did he not speak to me?" "You covered your face and for this reason the angel was insulted." Said I, "Will it ever come again?" He thought a moment and then said, "No, not the same one, but if you are faithful you shall see greater things than that." And then he gave me three signs of what would take place in my own family, although my husband was far away from me at the time. Every work came true. I went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing, and Heber C. Kimball the blessing. I know he had six wives and I have known some of them from childhood up. I knew he had three children. They told me. I think two are living today but they are not known as his children as they go by other names.
These are things I can testify to as the living truth, and I have told it to the Josephites. There is a great deal said about this church and the Josephites. I never knew of Joseph appointing him to be the prophet. I have never known him to say it, and I have known the boy ever since he was twelve years of age. I heard Joseph say this: "I have rolled this kingdom off of my shoulders onto the shoulders of the Twelve and they can carry out this work and build up His kingdom." Said he, "I am tired. I have been mobbed, I have suffered so much from outsiders and from my own family. Some of the brethren think they can carry out this work better than I can, far better. I have asked the Lord to take me away. I have to seal my testimony to this generation with my blood. I have to do it for this work will never progress until I am gone for the testimony is of no force until the testator is dead. People little know who I am when they talk about me, and they never will know until they see me weighed in the balance in the Kingdom of God. Then they will know who I am, and see me as I am. I dare not tell them and they do not know me." These words were spoken with such power that they penetrated the heart of every soul that believed on him.
Now about these Josephites—I have not a word to say about Joseph. He is doing a great work in the first principles. He does not believe in endowments; he does not believe in some other things; and he does not recognize this Church as the true church. But we have one criterion to go by. Joseph said, "The servant cannot be greater than the Master. If they persecute me they will persecute you." Has his son Joseph ever been persecuted? Have they been whipped and murdered in cold blood? They can go into the world as members of the re-organized church. They do not believe the right one took Joseph's place.
But let me tell you this gospel is going to spread, and you young men who are going on missions, give your hearts to God, for He said, "Young man, give me thy heart." And if you do give Him your hearts and pray to the heavens above the spirit of God and the Holy Ghost will rest upon you. If the great soul that rules in heaven and on earth, and the inspiration of the spirit comes down and rests in your bosom you will be able to speak the light to the people and you will gain a great reward. Just speaking of yourself in your own strength the spirit is withdrawn. You will have no power that will reach the heart. It may tickle the ear, but you must have the power of the Almighty. You must have the angels to be your companions and rest upon you. Let them be your guide in health and trouble. May you ever drink of the waters of intelligence that flows from the throne of God. God Almighty will guide you and direct you and you will walk in the paths of truth and you will receive your reward as His servants for the good deeds you have done on this earth.
Mary Lightner 1905 Address, typescript, BYU, p.3 - p.4
This is my testimony and I hope and pray you will believe me for I have received it from the servant's heart, and when that servant comes he will own his people if they are faithful and humble. A trying hour and darkest hours are in the future before us and it is only those who are humble, contrite and honest before God and endure to the end who shall receive the blessings. Faith will be trampled down and there will be punishments come upon those who are not honest. These are things I tell you and they are true and you will see that they are if you live long enough. All I have said to you about the future will come to pass just as sure as the sun shines in the heavens. May God bless you and let you be on the alert to receive the words of light that are given to you by His servants. You will all be tried by darkness and the powers of darkness will come to you, but put your trust in your Heavenly Father, let Him be your guide and support for He is the everlasting light, worlds without end.
I hope you will excuse me for being a little agitated but it is a terrible tax for me to come and get up to speak. But I want you to remember what I have said, that it is my testimony, as long as you live. I want to say to you as I said before that Joseph said if I was faithful, I should see greater things than the angel. Since then I have seen other persons, three came together and stood before me just as the sun went down—Joseph, Hyrum and Heber C. Kimball. It was prophesied that I should see Joseph before I died. Still, I was not thinking about that. I was thinking about a sermon I had heard. All at once I looked up and they stood before me. Joseph stood in the middle in a circle like the new moon and he stood with his arms over their shoulders. They bowed to me about a dozen times or more. I pinched myself to be sure I was awake, and I looked around the room to see where I had placed things. I thought I would shake hands with them. They saw my confusion and understood it and they laughed, and I thought Brother Kimball would almost kill himself laughing. I had no fear. As I went to shake hands with them, they bowed, smiled and began to fade. They went like the sun sinks behind a mountain or a cloud. It gave me more courage and hope than I ever had before.
[Sister Lightner stated that she had ten children; seven of them were boys and she had raised three of them to manhood. She has one daughter in the Church. Being asked concerning her husband, Sister Lightner said: "My husband did not belong to the Church. I begged him and pled with him to join but he would not. He said he did not believe in it, though he thought a great deal of Joseph. He sacrificed his property rather than testify against Joseph, Hyrum and George A. Smith. After he said this, I went forward and was sealed to Joseph for eternity."]
- S/ Mary E. Lightner
Contributed by Vie Carter Watts
Typed by Myrtle Hamblin Stoddard
06 15 (19)83
Thank you for this post.
ReplyDeleteIt is fascinating!
From my understanding of plural marriage, the only time this form of marriage occurs is when the man has had his calling and election made sure, and the Lord commands it. I believe Brigham Young got way off the mark with polygamy.
ReplyDeleteI love this. I am from Minersville, Utah and Minersville is where Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner is buried. She is like a celebrity in the tiny town of Minersville. I remember hearing stories of her seeing Joseph Smith in Minersville, but I have never read it. She also saved many of the pages of the Doctrine and Covenants from a mob in Jackson County at the printing press. Thanks for posting:)
ReplyDeleteThis is the bloggers wife. Some things about my life that will shed some light on how I processed information can be shown by some life experiences: I was born under the covenant. My mom was sealed to my biological father in the temple and he was killed in Vietnam when I was under the age of two. My mom dated a lot when I was young, but finding out she had a child and was already sealed to a man was kind of a relationship- buster for most Mormon men. She eventually met and married my step-dad when I was about four years old. He helped to raise me and was a good man in many ways, and my mom and him had six more children. He was under the understanding none of them would be sealed to him anyway, but to my biological dad in the eternities. There were some isolated instances of sexual abuse of various degrees from my step-dad at different ages of my life, one of them being when he was a branch president. I and my family received counseling after I brought that to light. In asking why God would call somebody like that to lead his branch, a counselor in Salt Lake City told me he met with some general authorities who had worse problems than my dad, and God gives men enough “rope to hang themselves with” if they so choose. I went to college and then paused my education to serve a fulltime mission in Vienna, Austria. The man who I adored and gave me my Patriarchal Blessing, who was a temple sealer, who I hoped would marry me and my future spouse in the temple someday was excommunicated for doing some wicked things. I knew I would have to tell my future husband before we were married that I had trouble trusting men and all the reasons why. I did. He still wanted to marry me. My husband and I were sealed in the temple.
ReplyDeleteSo I used the lens of my life experiences to interpret the things I read. D&C 132 had never given me a yucky feeling until after I was married. After I was married and read it, I had a "yucky" feeling. I jumped to the conclusion that something in D&C was not right, instead of jumping to the conclusion that maybe how I was interpreting things was not right.
At this point, I had not read the biography of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Leightner. Up until this point I only knew of her as Mary Elizabeth Rollins who had saved the manuscripts and hidden with her friend in the corn field.
Up until the time I got married this was my mind set of church history regarding polygamy...
MINDSET A (Before I was married.)
Joseph Smith was the prophet of the restoration and he translated the Book of Mormon with the help of God and his servants. Polygamy was practiced by the early pioneers. Eliza Snow was one of Joseph Smith’s plural wives. It was practiced so that widows could not be alone and be provided for. This was sanctioned by God but ended in 1890, where it was no longer sanctioned by God. A man could be sealed to more than one woman , but a woman could not be sealed to more than one man. It was practiced by Abraham and some other people in the Bible. Some practiced it in righteousness, some in wickedness. Christ might have been married in order to be a rabbi. God’s character is good.
Then immediately after we were married...(I will continue this in the next comment)...
Blogger's wife again...Well, "judge not that ye be not judged and with what measure ye, judge, that shall ye be judged also"...keeps coming to my mind. Unless we are actually walking in any person's shoes, we do NOT know the intents of their heart. Only our Savior, Jesus Christ does, so we immediately become hypocrites when we judge. We have to decide and make decisions about whom we trust, but, I apologize to my Patriarch who gave me the blessing, whether he is alive or dead or any individual whose intentions I have doubted or judged. He was probably a wonderful man in many ways. It is a form of gossip in a very bad sense to assume the worst instead of the best in a person..even people who do horrible things, and I'm not saying anyone did, we do not know what they endured in their childhood or what the actual circumstances are that compel them to feel that they need to make the decision that they do. That is why we have to be merciful and forgive or have the spirit of forgiveness, because we all sin and make mistakes I have been guilty of putting my family through a sort of hell by my actions in the past with problems that I have had, stemming from childhood experiences. And so it goes with every person on earth because of traditions or even just quirks of the fathers and mothers. That is why we need to be merciful, so we can receive mercy from our Savior, Jesus Christ. Sometimes when we set individuals up on a pedestal, we create a problem for ourselves when they fail or when we misjudge their intentions. I am sorry for the way I worded the paragraph above about my patriarch and just wanted to clarify publicly why I am sorry. May I be forgiven please for every instance where I have sinned in judging, and may I try hard not to do it again. It is hard to be charitable sometimes. I will try to do better.
DeleteAfter my husband and I were married, I took a class at BYU that involved reading many diaries of Mormon pioneer women. I never came across the account of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner until years later. In reading many accounts of different pioneer women, some were content in polygamy and some seemed miserable. It was also in this class that my mindset changed in light of new things that I was learning and the way I was processing them...
ReplyDeleteMINDSET B (Within the first six months of being married.)
Polygamy was practiced secretly by Joseph Smith and years later, openly by Brigham Young. Joseph said something differently in public than he practiced in private. There were more plural wives than just Eliza Snow. Emma denied that he ever practiced it, both to her children and in public. It wasn’t just widows who were married to him and others, even young women who were single were married in addition to widows. Sometimes Emma knew about these other marriages; sometimes she had no idea. Polygamy ended in 1890, where polygamy was no longer sanctioned by God. A man could be sealed to more than one woman, but a woman could not be sealed to more than one man. It was practiced by Abraham and some other people in the Bible. Some practiced it in righteousness, some in wickedness. Christ might have been married in order to be a rabbi. Joseph was the prophet of the restoration and he translated the Book of Mormon with the help of God and his servants. He did not die in favor with God , but may have been a fallen prophet, but the gospel was restored by him and that’s the main thing. God never approved of polygamy and he allowed the government to be a useful means to end it under the presidency of Wilford Woodruff. God’s character is good.
That is the conclusion I leaned toward after gaining my new knowledge but I wasn't sure. I wasn't going to throw all away I knew to be true, but I truly felt alone in dealing with my concerns. I felt I didn't have anywhere to turn for understanding. It was at this time that I poured over the scriptures and teachings of Latter-Day prophets.(more in next comment)...
At some point in my life, I have entered almost every frame of mind a person could enter when trying to understand what is real and what isn’t and what is of God and what isn’t when it comes to this subject (polygamy). I’m not proud of all these mindsets I’ve held at different times, when trying to make sense of things in the process of searching. I have tried to delineate each mind set that I have gone through in my journey and written them all down in my personal journal. I detailed nine different mind sets that I have gone through. I am not going to put them here, but if you could see them all you could see how things can change. These various mindsets are not necessarily always uplifting. Some of my mindsets lasted years, others weeks, others were dumped after a few hours of contemplating and studying…I might be forgetting some mindsets or beliefs I held as one morphed into another. It does show how people can enter different mindsets based on the new information they learn and the conclusions they jump to or the assumptions the make based on not having all the pieces of the puzzle.
ReplyDeleteI would not presume to think I have all the "pieces to the puzzle," even now.
However, all I can say is after reading only a partial account of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, it propelled me into what I label mindset F. Then as I prayed directly to God for understanding, I found her full account and went to mindset G. Then when I had an experience that was just too bizarre to relate, I went to mindset H. Now I am in mindset I, which I will describe this way: (it will be on the next comment)...
MINDSET I
ReplyDeleteMindset H might be true, but some of it might not. It doesn’t even matter to me anymore. Do I just trust God? He knows the answers. When will I be ready for them? I know I can trust God, but I do not trust my ability completely to discern what is from him and what is not from him. I have gotten mixed up so many times before, how can I know what is real is not just what I want to be real? How do I know when something is not just a coincidence but is the hand of God in my life? If a good tree cannot give forth bad fruit, and a pure fountain cannot give forth bad water and by their fruits ye shall know them... then what if I have misjudged something that I have thought was evil to be good and something I have thought good to be evil? How do I know I won’t do it again? How do I know when what I think is God’s will is really my will or just the will of the arm of the flesh? If I cannot tell the difference in this; then how can I trust that others who are leaders and prophets can tell the difference when they feel they have received revelation? I just want to do God’s will and I do not want to be deceived. I sense there could be some big decisions or trials for us as members of the church and I just want to do what God wants…if I can recognize that. I have trusted that prophets are led by God, but I am aware that not every thing a prophet has said or done may be the word of God, as there appear to be contradictions in the things they say even amongst each other...or I'm still missing pieces to the puzzle.
That is where I am today. I believe Joseph was a true prophet of God and was true to the end of his life. I believe God is of pure character and someone who can be trusted completely, as well, as his Son, Jesus Christ.
(more on next comment...)
I think this is my last of a long series of comments...(as this blog only allows a comment to be 4000 characters)...
ReplyDeleteSo just to wrap up my views of this subject...
Just like somebody who doesn't want to ask if God exists, will probably not find out God exists in most cases until they are ready to ask.
Just like somebody who doesn't believe Jesus is the Son of God and our Redeemer until they have the desire to know.
Just like somebody who doesn't want to believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to earth won't know unless they have the desire to ask.
Just like somebody who doesn't want to know if the Book of Mormon is true most likely won't until they have a sincere desire to know if it is true.
And you could go on and on.
The difference with polygamy is that right now it is a mute point to our salvation, in my opinion. Some may have been commanded by God to live it, thus it became a commandment for them, but not for others. Some may have thought or pretended they should live it, but were living in opposition to God by doing so, if he did not command it, thus they were breaking God's commandment by doing so. Many may never be commanded by God to live it in order to have eternal life.
I think the root of the matter is are we willing to do God's will and how do we know for sure something is God’s will.
I believe we can only have a desire to do God’s will if we believe God is all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful and is of the best character there is.
When we come across things in our scriptures/history where people were commanded by God or His Holy Spirit to do things that seem perplexing or wrong to us or that are different from our frame of reference or belief set, we have different ways of assessing the situation:
1) We can wonder if the person is lying to us.
2) We can believe that the person really believes what he or she is saying, but is deceived and is assuming something came from God or his servants, when it really did not, but came from a deceiver or he or she is mis-interpreting promptings.
3) We can wonder if the person is telling the truth and was told that by God or His Holy Spirit, and his servant.
If we contemplate the third assumption, then that leads us to other questions:
1) What do we believe about God’s character? Do we believe we can trust Him? Do we believe that he is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving?
2) Do we have an adequate measuring stick to be able to discern what is good from what is bad? Can we ever be in error about judging that which is good to be evil and that which is evil to be good? (Can the constructs of the society around us affect how we judge good and evil? Can our life experiences affect how we judge good and evil?)
3) Can we ask God ourselves?
4) Can we know that the answer we receive came from God or his Holy Spirit or a servant of God and not a deceiver? (Can our life experiences make recognizing an answer from God confusing?)
And that is it. That is all I am willing to post on a public site about how my viewpoint changed. The account of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner was a key pivotal point in the changing of my viewpoint. And what came after that was even more pivotal..