Friday, September 14, 2012

A SECOND CIVIL WAR STARTING IN CHICAGO

Boy, does this teacher strike situation concern me - combined with so many other things going on in this country.  I can hardly wait to see how the next few years pan out.....

We can't, with 100% certainty, attribute this to Joseph Smith, the prophet and presidential candidate, but that is the claim:  "My  brother, Noah Packard, says that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that  the next great [U.S. civil] war after the war of the rebellion [the  Civil War of the 1860's between the North and the South] would commence  in a little town now called Chicago but at that time it would have grown  to be a very large city. And another brother told me that the Prophet  said that the cause of the next great trouble of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the United States.  I believe I have given you all the facts in as short and concise manner  as possible." (A. Milton Musser papers, LDS Church Archives, letter  from Nephi Packard to A. Milton Musser, July 24, 1896.)

  If true, wow.

  It's  also interesting that TIME recently asked this very  question: Will the Federal Reserve Cause a Civil War?

  Another quote from Joseph Smith on currency:

“I  consider that it is not only prudential, but absolutely necessary to   protect the inhabitants of this city from being imposed upon by a   spurious currency...I think it much safer to go upon the hard money   system altogether. I have examined the Constitution upon this subject   and find my doubts removed” (Scriptural Teachings of the Prophet Joseph   Smith, 314).

  In that same quote:

  "Shall we  be such fools as to be governed by its [the Illinois Legislature] laws,  which are unconstitutional? No! We will make a law for gold and silver;  and then the state law ceases and we can collect our debts. Powers not  delegated to the states or reserved from the states are constitutional.  The Constitution acknowledges that the people have all power not  reserved to itself…This is the doctrine of the Constitution, so help me  God. The Constitution provides to regulate bodies of men and not  individuals" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 279).

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Another JS reference to the next great trouble (bigger than the rebellion, or first civil war):

  David Whitmer interview with Dr. Poulson, printed in the Deseret News on Friday, August 16, 1878:

  Question: When will the temple be built in Independence?

  Answer: Right after the great tribulation is over

  Question: What do you mean by that?

  Answer: A  civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be the  smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has  to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed  plates and peace all over.

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*More information on the Packards:

  It  seems A Milton Musser was appointed Assistant Church Historian in 1902.  This letter was written in 1896. Noah Packard (and "another brother")  apparently heard the Prophet talk about this 2nd civil war, its city of  origin, and its fundamental cause. Noah told his brother Nephi. Their  father was also named Noah Packard (whose father was also named Noah  Packard). I found a journal entry written by Noah Packard (Nephi and  Noah's father). It seems he was a good and faithful servant. Baptized by  Parley in 1832, stayed faithful through the Kirtland years, preparatory  anointing in Kirtland, 1st anointing, endowment, and sealing in 1845 in  Nauvoo, then also received his 2nd anointing in 1845.

  His  son, Noah [the 3rd] Packard, was born in 1821. Noah the 3rd is the  primary source of this prophecy. That means he was ~11 years old when  his father was baptized, and ~23 years old when the Prophet was  martyred. At least we don't discover he was like 5 years old when the  prophet died - it helps to make his hearing of the prophecy more  plausible - as we can sometimes find with these "I heard the Prophet  say" type of statements. Nephi Packard (the primary source's brother and  author of the letter to Musser) was born July 1832, so he was about one  month old when his father was baptized and ~11 years old when the  Prophet died.

  If the letter was written in 1896, then Noah  the 3rd would be ~75 years old (I assume he's dead by then?), and Nephi  would be 64 years old. This helps to temper the criticism that 1896 is  too late of a date for someone to mention "I heard the prophet say" - It  was his brother who heard it, who was 11 years older than he was.  Again, the timing of everything seems plausible. No gaping holes from  what I can gather.

  Here is some more information on Nephi  Packard. Baptized at 8 in Nauvoo, age 14 at the exodus, moved to Hobble  Creek (now Springville, UT), married at ~29, did some farming and  mining, and was called as Bishop of Springville Ward in 1883 (age 51)  and remained so until it split into 4 wards, in 1892. No mention of  plural marriage (which wasn't uncommon). And the line that I like: "Mr.  Packard is an amiable gentleman, of unusual intelligence, and a man of  strict honesty and integrity." Unusual intelligence - so perhaps it was  easy for him to remember the prophecy as his brother and "another  brother" explained it to him. Strict honesty and integrity - we have no  reason to doubt that he did not make this up.

  More  information on Noah Packard is a bit more difficult to find since he was  named after his father and grandfather. I wish we had more detail on  this "another brother" who told him that depreciation of the currency  was the cause.

3 comments:

  1. Hi E-

    Would you mind looking at the following video and stating your opinion on the Jewish Tetrad (calendar term related to blood moons).

    http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=PKZG7NNX

    The next Tetrad (according to the Jewish calendar) happens in the years 2014 and 2015. The only other two recent Tetrads were in 1948 (foundation of Jewish State) and 1967 (six days war). Further, the prior Tetrad before that was 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. The protestant pastor giving the talk argues that some very bad things (and also very good things) will start worldwide in 2014 or 2015.

    Any thoughts?

    D-

    ReplyDelete
  2. It very well may be that Joseph Smith said something like that. However, I think we need to be very careful about sources like this. The best I can find is that this is coming to us through a fifth hand source.

    1. Joseph Smith
    2. Noah Packard
    3. Nephi Packard
    4. Milton Musser
    5. Whoever it is that alleges that such a report exists on documents stored in church archives that none of us have been able to verify.

    If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected but otherwise, the distance between the source and the claim seems to be pretty wide.

    ReplyDelete
  3. There were thousands of little towns like Chicago during the Prophet Joseph Smith's life. That it became a large city one of America's largest is partial fulfillment of the prophecy already. At this time it is the city with the greatest crime rate and murder rate in the country. Don't be so surprised if the Fulfillment is completed with the Civil War starting in Chicago and spreading everywhere.

    ReplyDelete